Rear ended a guy from Santa Fe?! OK, now this is getting serious. I move for a rule that no-one is allowed to rear end people from Santa Fe on any club runs.
October meeting minutes
- Thread starter alia176
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From the sound of this thread I have learned a few things:
1. I'm not a paid member yet, so I shouldn't be allowed an opinion.
2. I don't have a "Land Cruiser," so I probably can't become a member anyway (that was inferred in another thread).
3. The snow runs sound like they have had some mishaps.
4. Onur doesn't like dealing with idiots.
5. Snow and ice makes driving more dangerous.
6. If I didn't know a few of you already and read this thread, I wouldn't want to go on your snow run, because no one wants to be "that guy" that ruins the trip.
2 years ago I dragged a 60 year old man, his wife, and their RAV4 a few miles through 18" powder on FR376. When first extricating his rav from the snow bank, the man recommended attaching the tow strap to the spare tire on the back door. (I didn't follow his advice, although it would have been a good video). Then to pull the rav we had to loop the tow strap around the lower a-arm, because there were no tow hooks. Then I punished my 11 month old engine, transmission, and transfer case for miles dragging his ass because he told me "he had done the road before and it ends just around the next few corners."
From this experience I can understand wanting to put some restrictions on a snow run. There are people of lower intelligence in the world, and we must protect them from themselves if need be.
1. I'm not a paid member yet, so I shouldn't be allowed an opinion.
2. I don't have a "Land Cruiser," so I probably can't become a member anyway (that was inferred in another thread).
3. The snow runs sound like they have had some mishaps.
4. Onur doesn't like dealing with idiots.
5. Snow and ice makes driving more dangerous.
6. If I didn't know a few of you already and read this thread, I wouldn't want to go on your snow run, because no one wants to be "that guy" that ruins the trip.
2 years ago I dragged a 60 year old man, his wife, and their RAV4 a few miles through 18" powder on FR376. When first extricating his rav from the snow bank, the man recommended attaching the tow strap to the spare tire on the back door. (I didn't follow his advice, although it would have been a good video). Then to pull the rav we had to loop the tow strap around the lower a-arm, because there were no tow hooks. Then I punished my 11 month old engine, transmission, and transfer case for miles dragging his ass because he told me "he had done the road before and it ends just around the next few corners."
From this experience I can understand wanting to put some restrictions on a snow run. There are people of lower intelligence in the world, and we must protect them from themselves if need be.
BigDogKona;8033155There are people of lower intelligence in the world said:
We've had some interesting tree runs, that is for certain. 
As a club that is open and receptive to new members, we should encourage participation in many events; picnics, meetings, and trail runs, including the annual Christmas tree run. We should plan for the annual Christmas tree run to be stocker friendly and make adjustments as we get closer to the day of the run.
The main issue is that introducing snow and ice to any kind of event can be treacherous. I remember one winter day that I was taking the Cruiser and the family down the dirt road from the crest into Placitas that very nearly was a disaster. Bad things can happen to any of us so keep that in mind in this discussion.
Pappy posted this a few years ago and it is good advice for all Christmas tree runs:
"Plan on an all day excursion, and if it snows it could be a very long, enjoyable day. Stock vehicles and families are welcome. Participants should come prepared for a cold day in the snow, which can include snow toys for the kids. The adults should bring their own toys (recovery gear) including tools, shovel, straps, shackles, winches, snatch blocks, tire chains, high-lift jacks, and a way to air up your tires at the end of the day. We share, so don't worry about having all this stuff. Vehicle to vehicle communication is important so a [edit by MM] HAM radio is highly recommend. We have loaner radios if you need one, just let us know ahead of time. Folks should also come prepared to stay in their vehicle over night (food, water, warm sleeping bags). It's never happened, but could. We usually finish the day with dinner in Jemez Springs."
All still good advice.
-Mike-
As a club that is open and receptive to new members, we should encourage participation in many events; picnics, meetings, and trail runs, including the annual Christmas tree run. We should plan for the annual Christmas tree run to be stocker friendly and make adjustments as we get closer to the day of the run.The main issue is that introducing snow and ice to any kind of event can be treacherous. I remember one winter day that I was taking the Cruiser and the family down the dirt road from the crest into Placitas that very nearly was a disaster. Bad things can happen to any of us so keep that in mind in this discussion.
Pappy posted this a few years ago and it is good advice for all Christmas tree runs:
"Plan on an all day excursion, and if it snows it could be a very long, enjoyable day. Stock vehicles and families are welcome. Participants should come prepared for a cold day in the snow, which can include snow toys for the kids. The adults should bring their own toys (recovery gear) including tools, shovel, straps, shackles, winches, snatch blocks, tire chains, high-lift jacks, and a way to air up your tires at the end of the day. We share, so don't worry about having all this stuff. Vehicle to vehicle communication is important so a [edit by MM] HAM radio is highly recommend. We have loaner radios if you need one, just let us know ahead of time. Folks should also come prepared to stay in their vehicle over night (food, water, warm sleeping bags). It's never happened, but could. We usually finish the day with dinner in Jemez Springs."
All still good advice.
-Mike-
Blaine,
I am really glad you've been out with some of us a couple of times; otherwise, you might think we are a tough group to get to know and understand.
-Mike-
Wow just stopped in to see what was going on with you guys and found this post.
I didnt know it was blood-in/ Blood-out to enjoy an Fj80? I thought last years run was fun even though I got hit, lots of friendly people just out for a christmas tree. It was the only event I attended but it was fun being around knowledgable people who just enjoyed what they were doing. I always thought it was cool that the people and this forum were such a great resource of info, even for a Lexus 450 owner . Sounds like you guys are only accepting "hardcore" 4x4 drivers who are willing to give up their first born sons. Peace out !
I didnt know it was blood-in/ Blood-out to enjoy an Fj80? I thought last years run was fun even though I got hit, lots of friendly people just out for a christmas tree. It was the only event I attended but it was fun being around knowledgable people who just enjoyed what they were doing. I always thought it was cool that the people and this forum were such a great resource of info, even for a Lexus 450 owner . Sounds like you guys are only accepting "hardcore" 4x4 drivers who are willing to give up their first born sons. Peace out !
Making friends?
Might want to think about what you say with a good manager job and a sponsor link in your sig.
Quote not obtained for good reason.
G
Might want to think about what you say with a good manager job and a sponsor link in your sig.
Quote not obtained for good reason.
G
Actually, my experience is that there are usually (especially on snow runs, particularly on the Christmas tree run) plenty of people willing to "take charge", the risk during a rescue is virtually nil, and the learning experience is huge. The biggest problem is the proverbial analysis paralysis, plus with all the opinions the final extrication effort usually somewhat resembles a spider web. That said, there's nothing wrong with that. The more vectors the higher the safety factor.
I say bring out the inexperienced, they will learn a lot while enjoying themselves. Don't scare them off...
I say bring out the inexperienced, they will learn a lot while enjoying themselves. Don't scare them off...
Trial by fire. I agree.
I am not a paying member yet, so again my opinion doesn't count. 
After my first run with some of you (Ali, Mike, etc) to the Puerco, I was excited to meet nice people that share my interests and aren't cussing up a storm around my kids.
The first thing I had to tell my son after meeting Onur at the wash campground was "you might hear some bad words on this trip. Just because other people say them, doesn't mean we are going to say them."
No one likes being around arrogance, swearing, intimidating personalitites, etc. If members aren't willing to moderate other members, then I don't feel this is the right club to bring my family around.
Another 2 cents from a prospective member.
After my first run with some of you (Ali, Mike, etc) to the Puerco, I was excited to meet nice people that share my interests and aren't cussing up a storm around my kids.
The first thing I had to tell my son after meeting Onur at the wash campground was "you might hear some bad words on this trip. Just because other people say them, doesn't mean we are going to say them."
No one likes being around arrogance, swearing, intimidating personalitites, etc. If members aren't willing to moderate other members, then I don't feel this is the right club to bring my family around.
Another 2 cents from a prospective member.
Either way, I'll lead the snow run.
Wow this went off topic quickly...
I dont think that anyone is wanting to exclude people on this run, not at all. I do see the need to prepare people for a run like this. Shawn mentioned a possible scenario of being to a few meetings and maybe a run before hand, not a bad idea...
Most folks with stock trucks have a limited framework of what can happen on a run like this. I didnt on my first tree run!
Our "club" is full of many different personalities, some are more extreme than others. In the end, we are here for the same reason, to enjoy our rigs!
On another note, I remember a handful of folks that came on tree runs and never came back, maybe that is indicative of the difficulty of the run?
Daisy
I dont think that anyone is wanting to exclude people on this run, not at all. I do see the need to prepare people for a run like this. Shawn mentioned a possible scenario of being to a few meetings and maybe a run before hand, not a bad idea...
Most folks with stock trucks have a limited framework of what can happen on a run like this. I didnt on my first tree run!
Our "club" is full of many different personalities, some are more extreme than others. In the end, we are here for the same reason, to enjoy our rigs!
On another note, I remember a handful of folks that came on tree runs and never came back, maybe that is indicative of the difficulty of the run?
Daisy
I think more likely they either expected a controlled "Disneyland" type of experience where everything is "safe" no matter their attentiveness to the task at hand, they were scared off by some less than ... invigorating and reassuring ... comments, or they observed some fluke incident during the first alternative above (which could have been mitigated by #2).
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Not what I said. I think attention to the task at hand is much more important (but enhanced by) experience level.
CAN'T WE JUST ALL GET ALONG?
My opinion in the matter is that if anyone wants to get involved in off-roading, they should know that there is some risk involved! You need to assess that risk at your own discretion! I personally have enjoyed anytime I have been out on any of the group runs. There is a lot that I have learned from many here. Kinda funny, I ran into a guy last week in a 60 that said he went on a tree run with the group years ago and thought it was wrong to leave a truck stuck overnight. I just thougt that safety would be an issue in trying to make a recovery late at night. I just feel that one shold know thier truck and trail. Or at least know their boundries and comfort zone. If you don't feel like you can make it, don't go. There was two runs I got high centered, but I go help from the group to move on. I now know what I am comfortable with and can pick my runs as I see fit. I won't ever blame anyone in the the group for my decisions. I know what is at risk, so if I have this group of friends that are willing to help, thanks! If someone does not want to join because this is not for them, so be it. It is not for everyone, and some just have to realize that!
My opinion in the matter is that if anyone wants to get involved in off-roading, they should know that there is some risk involved! You need to assess that risk at your own discretion! I personally have enjoyed anytime I have been out on any of the group runs. There is a lot that I have learned from many here. Kinda funny, I ran into a guy last week in a 60 that said he went on a tree run with the group years ago and thought it was wrong to leave a truck stuck overnight. I just thougt that safety would be an issue in trying to make a recovery late at night. I just feel that one shold know thier truck and trail. Or at least know their boundries and comfort zone. If you don't feel like you can make it, don't go. There was two runs I got high centered, but I go help from the group to move on. I now know what I am comfortable with and can pick my runs as I see fit. I won't ever blame anyone in the the group for my decisions. I know what is at risk, so if I have this group of friends that are willing to help, thanks! If someone does not want to join because this is not for them, so be it. It is not for everyone, and some just have to realize that!
Ah yes, quoting that great American philosopher Rodney King!
yes, this thread went rogue.
I believe the experienced people have had some worries after what we've seen on this run over the years. it has always been a stocker run but tons of scary things have happened. liability is high and we don't really know the people it typically happens to. that is the heart of the issue. that is my worry at least.
that said, we welcome new people and always have and help everyone in ANY situation. the tree run is stocker friendly and always will be.
this group can be intimidating to break into. we are a long standing club that has gathered mega experience in our sport and close ties with eachother. we have all personality types in the club, some won't get along, that's real life, we can deal with it.
this thread needs to die now. and my last thought is that the tree run shouldn't change. we will continue to educate prospective attendants about the risks and what can happen. then go and have fun.
I believe the experienced people have had some worries after what we've seen on this run over the years. it has always been a stocker run but tons of scary things have happened. liability is high and we don't really know the people it typically happens to. that is the heart of the issue. that is my worry at least.
that said, we welcome new people and always have and help everyone in ANY situation. the tree run is stocker friendly and always will be.
this group can be intimidating to break into. we are a long standing club that has gathered mega experience in our sport and close ties with eachother. we have all personality types in the club, some won't get along, that's real life, we can deal with it.
this thread needs to die now. and my last thought is that the tree run shouldn't change. we will continue to educate prospective attendants about the risks and what can happen. then go and have fun.
Beno, You shouldnt have to censor yourself! Your a Big boy Grow some balls and say what you want. Im sure theirs nothing you could write that would make anyone think even less of you
