October meeting minutes

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alia176

alia176

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Thank you Barry and Janet for hosting the meeting tonight. It was a good turnout and of course we all drooled over the beautiful shop!

- Give $400 donation to NMOHVA for fighting to keep our trails open
- Xmas tree run proposed for 12/8/12, Saturday. If anyone wants to propose a different day, please post up.
- I was talking to Jon about our xmas club meeting/dinner/party and where to possibly hold it this year. Like previous years, we have enough money in our accounts to have the food brought in so the host will not have to deal with cooking/cleaning/etc. I know it's a little early but it probably won't hurt to start discussing venues. If anyone has different ideas on where we should host the party, please speak up.

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the 9th works best for me as a tree run. I get off work the 8th at 9am. if the 8th is better for everyone else, that's fine.
 
BionicCruiser said:
the 9th works best for me as a tree run. I get off work the 8th at 9am. if the 8th is better for everyone else, that's fine.
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Given the times that the recovery efforts from the Tree Run has bled over into the next day (I can think of a few), Saturday the 8th may be a better option than Sunday the 9th, and we could just get a little later start on Saturday to allow Shawn to join in the fun. Assuming that he's able to get some sleep the night before, that is!
 
evanz80 said:
Given the times that the recovery efforts from the Tree Run has bled over into the next day (I can think of a few), Saturday the 8th may be a better option than Sunday the 9th,...
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that's a good point. as I mentioned I am willing to join late or miss if necessary. I can get in another snow run new years I'mm off those days.
 
evanz80 said:
Given the times that the recovery efforts from the Tree Run has bled over into the next day (I can think of a few), Saturday the 8th may be a better option than Sunday the 9th, and we could just get a little later start on Saturday to allow Shawn to join in the fun. Assuming that he's able to get some sleep the night before, that is!
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Some of us have said that maybe a good corrective to this trend of tough tree runs (vehicles left behind, Trucks damaged, Some destroyed) is to create Some limitations on who is allowed to go on the tree run...i.e., truck minimums or off roading experience minimums...

Anyway, just some things I've heard others mention.
 
beno said:
Some of us have said that maybe a good corrective to this trend of tough tree runs (vehicles left behind, Trucks damaged, Some destroyed) is to create Some limitations on who is allowed to go on the tree run...i.e., truck minimums or off roading experience minimums...

Anyway, just some things I've heard others mention.
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You mean things like recovery points? :-)
 
Since when did our club become a hard-core only club? Maybe NM4W will take me.
 
I know you are partially tongue in cheek marc, but the issue mostly centers around the tree run being one that many non members that we have never seen show up with little/no experience and little/no proper equipment. Kit's roll aside, I think every problem we've had involves the above mentioned non-members.

we can discuss some of this in a tree run thread, but maybe another idea is you have to be a paid member and attended at least 1 or 2 meetings or other runs/snow runs to go on the tree run. most if not all of the regular members have pull attachment points, carry straps, have at least some experience and know what to expect on one of our tree runs. we can't eliminate all problems, but have minimally/never had these kind of problems on other snow runs including stocker runs.
 
It just seems like the frequency of stocker-friendly runs has gotten very small. Since I've joined the club, my understanding of the purpose of the tree run was that it was intended to be an easy, relaxed day with the family that didn't require expert skills and modified rigs to accomplish.

Make the January snow run more of a hardcore run with restrictions and keep the tree run easy. The incident from last year was a fluke but maybe the route was not planned well enough to ensure it was friendly to beginners. Maybe the weather was unexpected and changed the level of difficulty. Setting restrictions for experience, modifications, meetings attended, etc. is a good idea as long as we have occasional runs without big restrictions.

If we never have runs for beginners to go on, we make it difficult to attract members that have just gotten into off-roading. All joking aside, not every one of us has the spare money or priorities to make major modifications to their vehicles that others do. Being alienated by the group because of a lack of mods is a serious concern. I've got thick skin and I make myself an easy target because it's fun but I just want to make sure we don't lose sight of the purpose of this club.
 
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I agree with Marc on this one. Last year was a fluke. The Christmas tree run has always been stocker friendly as long as I've been around.
 
marcfj60 said:
It just seems like the frequency of stocker-friendly runs has gotten very small. Since I've joined the club, my understanding of the purpose of the tree run was that it was intended to be an easy, relaxed day with the family that didn't require expert skills and modified rigs to accomplish.

Make the January snow run more of a hardcore run with restrictions and keep the tree run easy. The incident from last year was a fluke but maybe the route was not planned well enough to ensure it was friendly to beginners. Maybe the weather was unexpected and changed the level of difficulty. Setting restrictions for experience, modifications, meetings attended, etc. is a good idea as long as we have occasional runs without big restrictions.

If we never have runs for beginners to go on, we make it difficult to attract members that have just gotten into off-roading. All joking aside, not every one of us has the spare money or priorities to make major modifications to their vehicles that others do. Being alienated by the group because of a lack of mods is a serious concern. I've got thick skin and I make myself and easy target because it's fun but I just want to make sure we don't lose sight of the purpose of this club.
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You were not there Marc so your complaints are moot IMHO.

It was a very easy trail; The driver was inexperienced thus leading to havoc.

Each tree run for the past few years has had a combination of poor driving, unprepared trucks, unprepared participants and then recoveries from the experienced folks in the group--who have to give up days off and help people who should not have been on the run in the first place. That to me is selfish and a detriment to everyone else. Kit could have easily been very seriously injured last year. That's a fact.

Again, we're just throwing out ideas. It is a family run, and a stocker friendly run; but i don't think every one who knows what they are doing should have to suffer to bring someone who is unprepared and inexperienced on any given run.
 
Well, I don't know that three or so Christmas tree runs are enough to make a position to stand on. What have we had in the last 10 years? One roll, one electrical rewiring problem, a Land Rover debacle... What else? (a first gen stuck on a stump?)

The history of the Christmas tree run is that it is full of newcomers, pretty easy overall, provides good recovery practice for those who want it (even if they overanalyze it, not that there's anything wrong with that...), and one year we saved 8 or so locals out getting Christmas trees for their church from a very cold night ...
 
beno said:
You were not there Marc so your complaints are moot IMHO.
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Being there has nothing to do with my comments. They were directed at making sure we don't change the focus of the tree run to something with restrictions and pre-requisites.
 
Nobody has suggested we change the tree run to something hard core. I don't think Onur's suggestion that we place a few restrictions, or expect some experience, to be unreasonable. Do we want everybody to have 35" tires, winch, lockers? No, but like I suggested, recovery points should be mandatory. Like it was learned last year, and many years prior, things happen. If somebody showed up with a truck that was not safe, or endangered any of us, then that truck should not be allowed on the run.

Also, we have no control over the snow. In years where we have good storms the trails will be more difficult and folks that come out for the run should be prepared. Driving in the show has risks.

Also, Steve, it was a New Year's run where that mini-truck was stuck on the stump.:grinpimp:

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It should be a stocker friendly run. that is the intent. our biggest problems have come on that run though. off the top of my head-
Land Rover run, a stuck rig with no strap/recovery attachment points, a stuck and left behind FJcruiser, Kit's roll. these are all different years. when have we had non-tree snow runs where something this major happened. once or twice? for over twice as many runs. again the issue nearly always involves a person/rig that has never been on a snow run with us.

how many of those have ever come back? we are not gaining new members if they are feaked out on their first run. crap happens and we can't avoid all incidences, but we can minimize our liability and risks with a few restrictions. i.e.-recovery points, tow strap, being on a previous snow run, etc.
 
BionicCruiser said:
It should be a stocker friendly run. that is the intent.

again the issue nearly always involves a person/rig that has never been on a snow run with us.
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Didn't you rear end that guy from Santa Fe last year?

Well, since I'm not a paid member anymore, my comments are probably not needed, but...I think in the spirit of family Christmas tree finding fun, this run should be a stocker friendly one. Are the only trees available to cut down in the snowy hard to reach area that the group always goes to summer or winter? I think the group could evaluate the weather conditions and plan the trip accordingly, possibly pick a different place if the Jemez is going off.

When climbing mountains, you need to know your crew and also know when mother nature is telling you to stay home. There will always be another day. I think the group has gotten off lucky not to have any injuries including cold injuries.

This is the only run Marc goes on all year. Give the guy something to look forward too. At the same time, in a safe, sledding, cutting trees environment, it is a good way for new people to want to be a part of the group.

G
 
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