Nose Dive Fix Suggestions?

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pattay

pattay

Joined
Apr 12, 2022
Threads
13
Messages
56
Location
South Carolina
After finally getting my rotors resurfaced, I love the feel and braking of the 200 series much more. One thing I still fight though, is the significant nose dive when the vehicle isn't loaded. Would a suspension upgrade fix that? I mostly do road and highway driving. Any suggestions?
 
Just about the only thing that will make a difference is increased front spring rates. So yes an upgraded suspension will do some to help it as most use stiffer springs. Watch the amount of lift though as that will tend to exacerbate nose dive
 
pattay said:
transitioning between the two of them always feels like a reset.
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It should.

You’re comparing a body-on-frame SUV built for extensive off-road ability for which high suspension travel numbers are very important, to a compact SUV closely related to a Camry.

Not that Camrys are the sportiest platform..

I agree more front spring rate is the solution here. If you are stock weight the challenge will be getting that without also lifting it substantially.
 
If you have adjustable suspension you can increase the compression damping - this helps a LOT.

When I was running the Icon suspension with adjustable compression damping this was one of the things I used to find the 'sweet spot' for on-road driving settings - excessive brake dive = increase front compression damping.

Or turn the compression damping down and practice saying "Whoa boy!" every time you stop.

In an ideal world you would separate settings for low and high speed compression damping. On my motorcycles I have this adjustment and in that case you want to adjust the low speed compression damping to reduce body roll. Not sure who offers a shock with this level of adjustability for the LC.
 
Not to steal the thread, but how many miles is everyone getting out of the stock suspension? I've got a 2013 with 170k miles and its starting to feel soft.
 
ImperialLC said:
Not to steal the thread, but how many miles is everyone getting out of the stock suspension? I've got a 2013 with 170k miles and its starting to feel soft.
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I got my truck at 105k with original dampers, and changing to brand new ones didn’t make much of a difference. They are very robust.

That said, 170 is a different level
 
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bloc said:
I got my truck at 105k with original dampers, and changing to brand new ones didn’t make much of a difference. They are very robust.

That said, 170 is a different level
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Switch to basic Bilsteins, it should make a difference while you are at it get WestCott’s front collar lift to level it, that should also help and it is way cheaper than a full suspension upgrade
 
BlackMammoth said:
Dude, you are high
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Not sure if you are being fecetious or not, but dynamic damping control is specifically one of the features of the AHC/AVS suspension in the 200 series.
 
BlackMammoth said:
I don’t believe it is user adjustable for low speed compression.
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It isn't user adjustable beyond comfort/standard/sport, but by default it does hydraulically add extra spring pressure to the front axle under braking to reduce dive.

This is on top of it lowering the rear of the vehicle (or is it the whole thing?) almost an inch above 65mph.
 
bloc said:
It isn't user adjustable beyond comfort/standard/sport, but by default it does hydraulically add extra spring pressure to the front axle under braking to reduce dive.

This is on top of it lowering the rear of the vehicle (or is it the whole thing?) almost an inch above 65mph.
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Well.. I don’t want to derail this thread to much since it’s pretty irrelevant to how to make a LC have less brake dive.

But yes height adjust front and rear down 20mm at 62MPH, and computer controlled spring rate (front only) and 16 step damping control based on steering angle, speed, and multiple g-sensors as well as the user controllable (sport/normal/comfort) settings. The 300 series has spring rate switching at all 4 corners.
 
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BlackMammoth said:
I don’t believe it is user adjustable for low speed compression.
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I’ll start off by saying I’m pretty new around here, but the nose dive in my (new to me) 08’ LX 570 is almost nonexistent. Especially in sport mode. I recently traded in a 15’ 4Runner LE with Xreas and the nose dive, body roll and overall handling was pathetic compared to the LX. I was considering replacing my Xreas with Bilstein 5160 or the new Dobinsons. Covid backlogs got me looking for other options and I decided to pursue the 200 series. So far I think the AHC system on the LX is very impressive especially For daily driving duties on all types of roads. Might not be able to keep up with Icons or Kings off road.
 
While I have not tried or been able to figure out why, I have noticed after installing airbags (from airbag man which is firestone bags with a kevlar sleeve) and keeping them at the recommend low setting of 5 to 8 psi when not towing our travel trailer, that the car is slightly up on the rear (maybe 1/2 inch), however the nose diving under breaking is noticeable less, which I quite like.

As indicated, what is happening to the suspension is not very clear to me;
- Maybe the KDSS is put under extra pressure which is perhaps itself not good and is not intuitive as it is supposed to control sway
- Or the rear does not come up as much under breaking, which is not intuitive either as the airbags really prevent compression but probably do little when the springs are extended
- Or the front gets more pre compressed which I do not really see from the stance of the vehicle
- Or some combination of the above...

Maybe somebody good at suspension geometry and behaviour and understanding of the LC200 specifics can shine some light on this. I do know the nose diving is noticeable less after this mod.

Thanks in advance!
 
2021 LC200 said:
While I have not tried or been able to figure out why, I have noticed after installing airbags (from airbag man which is firestone bags with a kevlar sleeve) and keeping them at the recommend low setting of 5 to 8 psi when not towing our travel trailer, that the car is slightly up on the rear (maybe 1/2 inch), however the nose diving under breaking is noticeable less, which I quite like.

As indicated, what is happening to the suspension is not very clear to me;
- Maybe the KDSS is put under extra pressure which is perhaps itself not good and is not intuitive as it is supposed to control sway
- Or the rear does not come up as much under breaking, which is not intuitive either as the airbags really prevent compression but probably do little when the springs are extended
- Or the front gets more pre compressed which I do not really see from the stance of the vehicle
- Or some combination of the above...

Maybe somebody good at suspension geometry and behaviour and understanding of the LC200 specifics can shine some light on this. I do know the nose diving is noticeable less after this mod.

Thanks in advance!
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Shouldn’t impact KDSS unless it were causing the vehicle to lean to one side. Front to rear is neutral and accounted for in the way KDSS is designed.

I’m guessing it’s the length of the airbags and their low inflation pressure offering some support - that quickly goes away as the rear is lifted. Compared to the stock springs which will sit lower, but have a more linear drop in rate as the vehicle lifts.

Basically I think the rear is already closer to the height you’d achieve under braking, and even if the front is still dropping just as much as before, there is less total attitude change under braking than without the bags, and that is what you are feeling as reduced dive.

Or that’s my theory anyway.
 
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