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Noisy Transfercase - can't figure out

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by 1973Guppie, Dec 6, 2003.

  1. 1973Guppie

    1973Guppie SILVER Star

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    So I posted awhile back that my transfercase was REALLY loud when driving. My vehicle is a 73 FJ40 TLC, V8 vortec, nv4500, stock TC, yadda yadda. Before getting it on the road I replaced the gear oil in everything and made sure all was topped off. It was fine for awhile then began to get very loud. Well, I figured that the TC was bad since I knew I just topped the gear oil off and was sure it wasn't because a lack of gear oil. The TC was rebuilt about 2 years ago but has less than 2k miles on it. It did sit for awhile without oil in it but I checked it over before install and everything looked ok.

    Here's the weird part. Today I decided I was going to drain the TC and check the plug for metal particles as I figured that the TC needed rebuilding because of all the noise it was making. I drained the gear oil and a very minimal amount came out, probably enough to fill 3 to 4 coffee cups!! Weird as I know I filled it up until there was gear oil running from the fill plug. I was also planning on pulling the inspection plate to look over the inside but now am wondering if I should just fill er back up with gear oil and forget about it. Weird thing is that I have no idea where that oil went? There were no visible leaks other than a small leak that shows up (puddles) below the ebrake drum. It was a very minor leak and most of the time was just a drop that sat on the bottom of the brake drum and I did not get any puddles or anything else underneath the car. Is it possible that more of this oil was coming out from the seal on the rear of the parking brake drum while driving? I doubt this as there is no sign of gear oil underneath the car, only a little grease from the driveshaft yolks. OR is it possible that the gear oil has gone the other way back into the NV4500? Can't figure it out, Any thoughts are greatly appreciated as I think my cruiser now has a ghost! :p

    later,

    Noah
     
  2. TJDIV

    TJDIV Back in The U.P.

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    I found my gear oil going all over the place. Through the brake, into my trans, and leaking pretty good.

    As far as the noise...I don't know how loud the NV4500's are, but I do know that my noise was almost 100% transfer case. With the minimal amount of fluid that came out, I'd say that you might want to fill it back up, watch more closely for leaks, etc, and see where you are by New Years or so....

    IV
     
  3. 1973Guppie

    1973Guppie SILVER Star

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    Yeah,

    so I just went out and looked at the bucket of gear oil, it is at the most 3 coffee cups full, is it possible that a dry case just sucks up some oil after it has sat for awhile? I did notice that the gear oil I drained out is fairly dirty/dark, weird since it has only been in there for a short period of time. I guess it is possible that I just screwed up and didn't top it off correctly but this seems unlikely? anyhow, any other thoughts are appreciated.

    Noah
     
  4. TJDIV

    TJDIV Back in The U.P.

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    Sure, its possible. Not sure the cases act like a sponge, I just think the noise came back because you were low on oil.

    As long as you trust your rebuild.

    Good Luck.

    IV
     
  5. 1973Guppie

    1973Guppie SILVER Star

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    TJDIV,

    what kind of setup are you running? when you mentioned your TC was leaking all over, was it visible on the outside or do you mean it was leaking mostly internally over to the tranny? Thing is that both my tranny and TC seep a very little bit of oil but the NV4500 is still seeping the proper synthetic red oil while the tc is seeping the proper gear oil which leads me to believe it is not exchanging fluids from the TC to the tranny? There is no major leaks coming from either the TC or the tranny. Definetly not enough to explain this kind of loss in fluid?

    Noah
     
  6. TJDIV

    TJDIV Back in The U.P.

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    Well, honestly, I destroyed my transfer case with my 350 and also killed my 3 speed. So I switched them out with GM running gear.

    I wouldn't think you're leaking if you don't see it, don't think you're "sharing" enough to lower the level like that either. I think you may not have had it "completely worked full" by running it you may have pushed oil further into your brake assy, or where ever it can go, then you ran it a little; used up some gear oil, and now you need to top it off again. Hopefully you'll be golden with nothing more than a refill and run.

    My set up now is a 350;700R4;P-208;full width GM axles. (and I LIKE it.) Better road handling and higher speeds while still being a monster off road, and holy sh*t batman...cheap parts price wise.
     
  7. IDave

    IDave

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    With the standard setup, and I would assume any tranny/tc setup, if there is any gasket leakage between the tc and the tranny the gear oil will migrate to one or the other. There's even a commercially made tube to equilibrate between the two. Of course, the way to find out is to drain the tranny and see if you have excess fluid in there. Just opening up at the fill plug and having fluid pour out (as though it is overfilled) will clue you in.

    The other possibility is other leaks. The rear seal at the parking/ebrake is a good choice to check. Brake pads will be nicely soaked.
     
  8. Mainer7

    Mainer7

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    Yeah, like IDave said,

    I had the same thing happen on my 78 40. T-case was empty but Tranny was waaay over filled. I got the kit from Man-a-Fre to balance them until I have time to replace the gasket/seal between them.
     
  9. cruiser_guy

    cruiser_guy

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    You can make the "equalizer kit" with about $15 in parts from a hydraulic supplier and a length of oil resistant hose. I've got it under my '60 right now until the spring when the rain lets up!!
     
  10. dinkleberry

    dinkleberry

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    I thought you couldn't use the "equalizer" because the NV4500 uses special lube. ???
     
  11. Rice

    Rice SILVER Star

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    I can't speak for the old NV4500 setups but the newer ones (coming from AA) use a sealed bearing on the output shaft. If that is the case there should be no fluid going between the two. That said I don't know how old your setup is. To find out if there is any sharing, pull the fill plug on the transmission and see if it has mixed and is overfull. If so the tranny fluid is contaminated and you will want to change it. Then I'd suggest engineering an equalizer hose if you can and filling both the TC and tranny with the NV4500 fluid (GM Transmission oil PN 12346191). (The 4500 uses carbon fiber synchronizers which don't like regular gear oil). I've read other places that 75W-90 Castrol Syntorque Synthetic was tested and did very well and any of these oils will work well in your TC.
     
  12. adasilva

    adasilva

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    [quote author=cruiser_guy link=board=1;threadid=8498;start=msg72408#msg72408 date=1070777896]
    You can make the "equalizer kit" with about $15 in parts from a hydraulic supplier and a length of oil resistant hose. I've got it under my '60 right now until the spring when the rain lets up!!
    [/quote]

    Can I get some help here, what are the parts I need to make this myself... I am not sure where to start?

    Alex
     
  13. CruisinGA

    CruisinGA

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    Take the fill plugs somewhere with some fittings.
    Find a barbed fitting with the same threads as the fill plugs. Find some hose that fits the barbed fittings. Assemble and install.
    I don't believe I am missing anything...
     
  14. cruiser_guy

    cruiser_guy

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    [quote author=adasilva link=board=1;threadid=8498;start=msg73155#msg73155 date=1070942381]
    Can I get some help here, what are the parts I need to make this myself... I am not sure where to start?

    Alex
    [/quote]
    What I did was take a fill plug down to the hydraulic supplier and get an 90 elbow to fit. They make elbows with a rubber "O" ring and jam nut so you can orient the elbow in any direction you want and still have it tight. (two required) Also get two barbed hose couplers that thread into the elbows. Next stop is NAPA or someone that carries an oil resistant hose. Pick up about 2 feet ('60 series with split case and H55) of the size that fits the barbed fittings along with two hose clamps for extra safety. Install the elbow tight as possible in the orientation required (with the jam nuts backed all the way off to allow maximum penetration and "catch" of the threads) then tighten the jam nut. Install the barbed fittings and the hose and hose clamps.
    I could give part numbers but they are likely not going to cross at your supplier. :cheers:
     
  15. adasilva

    adasilva

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    Oh. I get the general idea now.

    Anyone know what the size, and thread/pitch the filler holes are?

    Ex. 16mm 1.0 or 15mm 1.25. You fellas get the idea.. If I know that I can order them from sumitt or another place like that.

    Its an 87 HJ60 with the H55 and the split transfer.

    Thanks,
    Alex

    OH, and how long can you safely run this on the truck if there are no other serious leaks?
     
  16. cruiser_guy

    cruiser_guy

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    Alex,
    Where are you located? With the HJ60 I'd assume Canada. I'm in Vancouver, B.C. and got my stuff at Hydraulic Supply in Port Kells.
    As far as I know you can run this forever! The tranny and transfer use the same filler plugs. The only issue you might have is that the bad seal may wear a groove in the bushings and thereby make a repair impossible without a speedi-sleeve.
    I think I posted part numbers for Hydraulic Supply about a month or two ago.
     
  17. adasilva

    adasilva

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    The truck is from Quebec, but I brought her down about a month ago to the Northeast.

    I will have to find somewhere local to get the fittings, or mail order.

    I think I can get by if I know the size and pitch.

    Alex
     
  18. Lost Arrow

    Lost Arrow

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    Noah,
    You mentioned you rebuilt the TC about 2 years ago. I rebuilt mine about 1 year ago and it's been noisy ever since. I have a '73 FJ40, 350/700-R4. All the TC components were in very good condition so I used one of the aftermarket refresh kits: bearings, seals, gaskets etc. and the idler gear shaft.
    The noise is a whine/chatter that is torque sensitive. In cruse under no load everything is quiet. My first assumption was that the refresh kit changed the way the input gear meshed with the idler gear. The new thrust washers on the idler gear shaft took up .006" of clearance (wear). I pulled it all out again and put new gears in it... still noisy.

    Advance Adapters refered me to a TC rebuilder in Colorado Springs. In talking with "Jerry", he said some of the aftermarket refresh kits are being sold with defective idler gear shafts. The shafts (some, not sure which) are not heat treated correctly and are not hard enough. He suggested I test mine with a file. "If you can scratch it, it's too soft". Replace the shaft and bearings with original Toyota parts.

    So there you go... gotta' pull it out again....I'm not positive that this is the problem but before I put it back in I'm gonna' figure out a way to run it on the bench first!

    If anyone else has had a similar problem please share it with us. Thanks, Pete
     
  19. IDave

    IDave

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    Boyo, I have the same issue. Rebuilt the TC and put in a new idler shaft and bearings, expecting miracles. Still noisy, just as you describe, albeit 40% better. But, I am not totally convinced it is the TC anymore. I am wondering about front wheel bearings, since the sound definitely comes from the front (I know sounds transfer around a lot, though).
     
  20. Lost Arrow

    Lost Arrow

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    Dave,

    Thanks for the input.
    The noise I've got is high pitch in nature. Most bad wheel bearings I've heard are a lower pitched rumble that changes while turning the wheel one way or the other.

    Pete
     
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