noisy torque converter

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anderaa13

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hey guys, I posted earlier about a rattling noise that i couldn't find. Well, I think I may have found it. I bought a stethescope today and it seems like the noise is coming from the torque converter area, as someone suggested. I can also hear it from the back of the oil pan, but that would be expected. The noise is an irregular metallic rattling audible under light throttle only. It doesn't occur at idle, but I can hear it if I brake torque it. Does anyone have any suggestions for further diagnosis. It seems to be functioning properly and I have never heard of this on an 80.
thanks, aaron
 
Koffer

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The noise is an irregular metallic rattling audible under light throttle only. It doesn't occur at idle, but I can hear it if I brake torque it. Does anyone have any suggestions for further diagnosis.

It maybe a cracked flex plate
Junk had one crap out on him but I dont know if it sounded like what you have discribed but ones Ive seen on other cars sounded like this and sounded worse as they cracked more
 
IdahoDoug

IdahoDoug

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How are you listening to it with a stethescope under light throttle and braking? With the engine sitting at idle and you laying under it, the dynamics of the torque converter are completely different, so the sound you may be hearing from the back of the oil pan could be simple engine sounds. And of course, the sounds will travel throughout the engine/tranny area as they're basically one unit tightly bolted together.

Give some more details on the original rattle as best you can.

Doug
 
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cruiserman

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Sounds familiar . . . :'(

Well, not really. Pull off the inspection cover and check out the flex plate and torque convertor.
 
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anderaa13

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i got under it while my brother was brake torqueing at about 1100 rpm. it is easy to hear from outside or with the windows down. i don't think this is engine noise. the engine seems quiet in all areas except for the rear of the oil pan. It is definitely noticible from the torque converter area. once again, it only happens during light throttle applications, and is not a knock or a thud or anything else deep sounding. it is a light irregular metallic rattle. cruiserman- what do you mean by it sounds familiar?
 
C

cruiserman

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See the rebuild thread.

Mine made the noise all the time, but perhaps it started just under light throttle. I don't know.

On my '93 there is a mount on the USA passenger's side of the bellhousing that holds one of the exhaust pipes. Maybe that's a little loose. Check the flex plate and torque convertor bolts.
 
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anderaa13

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I am going to check the bolts when i get home today. I think maybe i'll take it to toyota and see what they say. It definitely seems to be coming from the torque converter though. I would think if was coming from elsewhere in the motor i could hear it there and not just in the back of the oilpan.
thanks, aaron
 
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anderaa13

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noisy torque converter-update

Well, I went to toyota today and had them listen to the noise. They say its not the converter- you can just hear it coming through there. Their guess is carbon deposits on the pistons, and possibly even some loose chunks in the combustion chambers. This makes sense because I have had leaky valve seals for some time now. On a side note i had my compression checked because I am losing a quart every 1000 miles. It came back about 175 on all cylinders, so this points to valve seals as the source of oil loss. They said they have some type of treatment that can possibly clean these deposits and quoted me $1200 for seal replacement. I'm not sure if I can handle head removal myself. Anyone have any comments or recommendations?
thanks, aaron
 
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cruiserman

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Did they add oil to the cylinders to see if the compression numbers change? It's difficult to say it's valve seals and not rings based on 1 set of numbers.

Removing the head is not difficult. You just have to get the accessories out of the way. You'll need a new head gasket, which is not cheap. The factory manual outlines the procedure. Good time to do all the cooling/heating system hoses and have the injectors cleaned. Clean out the intake and throttle body while you're at it.
 
Tank

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Aaron-

Quick question, along with the "sound" you were hearing did also get a vibration at the same time? If so, this may possibly be my issue. I'm also losing a quart around every 1000 too. Thanks for getting back to us with what you found out, I'm sure it helps several of us figure out some issues we are having.

Mark
 
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anderaa13

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no, they didn't add oil. But based on the numbers and consistency of the numbers, they (and I) didn't think it was necessary. Valve seals shouldn't affect compression, right? If that is the case and compression is ok, then valve seals seem to be where the oil is going. Their diagnosis of the rattle (carbon deposits) and having a small amount of smoke at startup for the last few years also point to valve seals.
aaron
 
ppc

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I'd agree that worn valve seals are more than likely causing the high oil consumption but I have a hard time buying the "deposits on the pistons, and possibly even some loose chunks" theory. No loose piece of anything is going to survive long inside the cylinder without self destructing or destroying the piston. I don't know if worn valve guides could cause the noise your hearing but if you are going to do anything with the head I would have it done completely. New guides, seals, valves, the proper machining and clearances setup.
 
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anderaa13

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no, i'm not getting any vibration at all.

I also have a hard time buying the deposit thing. The mechanic said he really wasn't 100% sure what it was either, but that was his best guess. It makes some sense considering the leaking valve seals, but who knows if that is what is actually making the noise. This is also coming from my local dealership which I don't trust to much, so i may take it to an out of town Lexus dealership to get another opinion.
aaron
 
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farc

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no, i'm not getting any vibration at all.

I also have a hard time buying the deposit thing. The mechanic said he really wasn't 100% sure what it was either, but that was his best guess. It makes some sense considering the leaking valve seals, but who knows if that is what is actually making the noise. This is also coming from my local dealership which I don't trust to much, so i may take it to an out of town Lexus dealership to get another opinion.
aaron

I have the same noise in my 80 you fix the noise?.
 
J-Bo

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It this noise consistent, every time off idle? If you are on an incline and the motor has to work more to get going, is this noise more noticeable?
 
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farc

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It this noise consistent, every time off idle? If you are on an incline and the motor has to work more to get going, is this noise more noticeable?
No consistent at light throttle sound like small metal ball in a can and increase the noise when is hot, at WOT sound hard but only from 3500 to 5000 when change gear the noise stop and start again at 3500 more o less.
 
ncsudrewh

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No consistent at light throttle sound like small metal ball in a can and increase the noise when is hot, at WOT sound hard but only from 3500 to 5000 when change gear the noise stop and start again at 3500 more o less.

I actually have the exact same issue. 193k miles. I know it is not the exhaust because I've removed the infamous heat shield before the cat and replaced all of the hangers, then kicked and pounded on it the entire system with a rubber hammer - not a single rattle.

I also hear this "metal ball in a can" rattle noise when accelerating from a stop with light throttle, but not all of the time. Under heavier throttle, I sometimes hear the noise at high RPM as mentioned above, but the noise instantly stops after the transmission shifts to the next gear. There is no question that the rattle is engine speed dependent. Everything I have stated is amplified with warmer engine/outside temperatures.

I'm hoping someone else has experienced an issue similar to what we are describing in this thread. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
gotmud

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Interesting reading these comments. I've had a noise that sounds like exhaust back-rasp that appears from 2500-3500 RPM. This noise was present before AND after I rebuilt the engine, as well as with the OE and non-OE exhausts. The only OE pieces still left are the down pipes.
 
ncsudrewh

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I actually fixed my rattle problem this weekend - it was the vibration damper ("rubber block" as some refer to it) on the side of the transfer case. Fed up, I got under the truck and started whacking on everything with a rubber mallet until I reproduced the rattle. My metal tech slider has a supporting arm that has been in contact with the damper for the past 10k miles, so I think this may have something to do with it's failure. Long story short, I removed the damper from the side of the t-case and the vibe I described in post #17 is gone!
 

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