No spark OR Fuel... (1 Viewer)

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Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Threads
4
Messages
33
Location
Greenville, SC
I have a 1990 FJ62 with 3fe engine that has about 180,xxx on the clock. I have had a good many problems with the engine lately and so far fixed them all.

After having another problem for about 2 months i finally got her running correctly again. I was on my way to work this past saturday when the engine just shut off while traveling about 55 mph. While waiting on AAA i checked all fuses, and all are good. Then i checked and there is no spark coming from the coil.

After getting it home i discovered im also not getting fuel either. This seems like it could be the ignitor, as it controls the coil and fuel pump. Is that correct? What else am i missing. I have searched and searched and could not find any threads where someone had both lack of fuel and spark. If anyone could please hit me with some knowledge i would really appreciate it.
 
My '90 FJ62 had same problem. Turned out to be the fuel pump. Don't really know why but if there is no fuel pressure (or is it an amperage signal from the pump to the ECU?) it won't crank. I have 280,XXX and on my 3rd fuel pump. First one just died. Second took several months of intermittment operation before I finally found the problem. At that time I also replaced the fuel pump relay because it was not quite in spec but that was not the problem. And since I was messing with the fuel supply I also replaced the fuel pressure regulator and fuel pressure dampner and in-line fuel filter at the same time.

Others have found a problem with the fuel pump wiring connection in the rear quarter panel.
 
My '90 FJ62 had same problem. Turned out to be the fuel pump. Don't really know why but if there is no fuel pressure (or is it an amperage signal from the pump to the ECU?) it won't crank. I have 280,XXX and on my 3rd fuel pump. First one just died. Second took several months of intermittment operation before I finally found the problem. At that time I also replaced the fuel pump relay because it was not quite in spec but that was not the problem. And since I was messing with the fuel supply I also replaced the fuel pressure regulator and fuel pressure dampner and in-line fuel filter at the same time.

Others have found a problem with the fuel pump wiring connection in the rear quarter panel.

Hmm, i did think at one point that a previous problem was due to a possibly failing fuel pump. So you did not have spark or fuel either? I have checked the wiring in the rear quarter panel access and all connections are clean and intact. I recently had to replace all seals on the fuel rail, and also the dampner and pressure regulator so at least those are already taken care of.
 
My failing fuel pump symptoms... start fine drive a bit turn it off would not start - turn the key and nothing, no crank, just the click of the main relay under the hood. Wait a few seconds and try again and after a couple of tries would start up fine. While driving would just stop and totally die. This went on for several months.

I always suspected the fuel pump but almost every time I tested it by jumping it to the battery it pumped... until it finally died. I ended up dropping the tank 3 times over a month. First time to just remove and throughly inspect the pump - looked clean and it bench tested ok so I cleaned the sock filter and stuck it back in. Worked for awhile. Second time I started with the fuel pump relay, tested just outside of spec so I replaced it, dropped the tank and replaced the sock filter with new and it worked just fine for awhile. Third time it died while driving on the freeway so I dropped the tank and put in a new fuel pump, regulator, and dampner. This time the pump was totally dead.
 
My failing fuel pump symptoms... start fine drive a bit turn it off would not start - turn the key and nothing, no crank, just the click of the main relay under the hood. Wait a few seconds and try again and after a couple of tries would start up fine. While driving would just stop and totally die. This went on for several months.

I always suspected the fuel pump but almost every time I tested it by jumping it to the battery it pumped... until it finally died. I ended up dropping the tank 3 times over a month. First time to just remove and throughly inspect the pump - looked clean and it bench tested ok so I cleaned the sock filter and stuck it back in. Worked for awhile. Second time I started with the fuel pump relay, tested just outside of spec so I replaced it, dropped the tank and replaced the sock filter with new and it worked just fine for awhile. Third time it died while driving on the freeway so I dropped the tank and put in a new fuel pump, regulator, and dampner. This time the pump was totally dead.
Man three times in a month thats no fun. Thanks for the quick replies this is my daily driver so i am out of a ride right now. When i turn the key the engine turns over but just does not start. Looks like I am going to have to break down and drop the tank and test the pump to be sure.
 
You could always test the pump without dropping the tank by having someone crank while you feel the fuel line or listen underneath for the pump spinning, or jump to the battery, or disconnect the fuel line and stuff the line into a bottle and then go crank it. I think you can also jump the fuel pump at the test connector used for pulling engine codes. I did all these things and usually the pump worked but sometimes it did not so I was never entirely certain what was going on. Was the pump actually not working or was I screwing up my test process?

Took me down the path of checking all the electrical systems including the ECU. Didn't find anything but I went ahead and gave it a tune up (plugs, wires, rotar, cap).

I only found the fuel pump relay to be slightly out of spec and replacing it did not solve the problem. Next was the mass air sensor/valve which I tore apart and tested and found to be ok.

I don't think I would have been smart enough to find the problem until it actually died. And looking back I am surprised at how intermittent it was.

Dropping the tank was not so bad.... after the first time. You have to remove the sway bar and about 1/2 the time I forget to disconnect the vent lines. First time I dropped it I did not totally empty it so I kinda got squashed when it came down and could hardly squirm out from under the truck. I got better with practice. Plus it gave me the chance to clean it and re-paint.

I got my fuel pump from the local parts store - its not OEM and was pretty inexpensive. Has worked good now for over a year.

For another topic - do you have a trick for seeing the timing mark when timing. I can't get my eyes and my timing light to line up on the mark at the same time.
 
You could always test the pump without dropping the tank by having someone crank while you feel the fuel line or listen underneath for the pump spinning, or jump to the battery, or disconnect the fuel line and stuff the line into a bottle and then go crank it. I think you can also jump the fuel pump at the test connector used for pulling engine codes. I did all these things and usually the pump worked but sometimes it did not so I was never entirely certain what was going on. Was the pump actually not working or was I screwing up my test process?

Took me down the path of checking all the electrical systems including the ECU. Didn't find anything but I went ahead and gave it a tune up (plugs, wires, rotar, cap).

I only found the fuel pump relay to be slightly out of spec and replacing it did not solve the problem. Next was the mass air sensor/valve which I tore apart and tested and found to be ok.

I don't think I would have been smart enough to find the problem until it actually died. And looking back I am surprised at how intermittent it was.

Dropping the tank was not so bad.... after the first time. You have to remove the sway bar and about 1/2 the time I forget to disconnect the vent lines. First time I dropped it I did not totally empty it so I kinda got squashed when it came down and could hardly squirm out from under the truck. I got better with practice. Plus it gave me the chance to clean it and re-paint.

I got my fuel pump from the local parts store - its not OEM and was pretty inexpensive. Has worked good now for over a year.

For another topic - do you have a trick for seeing the timing mark when timing. I can't get my eyes and my timing light to line up on the mark at the same time.
Is the mark just not visible enough? I remember reading a thread where someone put some kind of paint or maybe white out or something on the mark to make it more visible under the timing light.

Here is a pretty good thread on troubleshooting the fuel pump. You did check for ECU error codes as well?

https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/283249-fj62-no-fuel-start.html
I actually have not, go figure i forget one of the most basic things to check. Thanks for the fuel pump troubleshooting link. I will probably be dropping the tank tomorrow just for the sake of inspecting the pump and seeing what kind of shape my tank is in. I do know that there is no fuel getting to the fuel rail already, which either means the pump is bad or that its not getting power. I just have to figure out which one. It is strange to me that fuel and spark both quit at the same time. Makes me think it could be a computer issue possibly. Thanks for all the help guys ill have updates as soon as i figure something out.
 
So... update.

I finally got some time today to work on the cruiser and was going to check trouble codes and fuel pump. Well when the ignition is on the check engine light is not... It has the brake light and the A.T. Oil temp light on. This is ECU related right? I need to get my hands on a good multimeter as the cheapo i have now keeps giving inconsistent readings on known good components.

In the mean time anyone have any tips? I have read through threads discussing this very thing before but when i try to go back and find them i cant. Am i just a search tard?
 
possibly the EFI relay they do go bad the other might be the air meter
 
From your first round of trouble in July you replaced:

"Throttle Position Sensor
Intake hose,(cracked and chunks missing)
O-rings for fuel injectors
fuel dampener
fuel pressure regulator
intake manifold gasket
Fuel filter
New spark plugs
New wires

The only thing left i can think of is the fuel pump."

Then you replaced the air flow meter and it seemed like it was fixed.

I still suspect fuel pump, mostly because it sounds nearly exactly like the gremlins I chased for months. Not much else to really replace except for rotar & cap & air filter. There is all those vacuum lines and the main relay and fuel pump relay and I gues you should check the calibration of the new throttle body sensor.

My carbon cannister has not worked per FSM for years and I keep thinking to replace it. Actually want to cut it in half clean it out, fill it with new carbon, and then weld a tounge & groove seal with a couple of latches. But I keep blowing it off because the rig runs fine now.

Have you pulled codes recently? I don't remember the codes I had but I did pull out the ECU and check it per FSM - no problems.

I don't exactly know why but I think (and gurus chime in here) if the system is not getting fuel the ECU is smart enough to not send spark. Fuel pressure is an input into the ECU. Would have to see the ladder diagram on the ECU to know for sure.

Sounds like an intermittent fuel pump. Doesn't look like you have dropped the tank yet but it really is not that bad of a job unless there are some rusted and locked on bolts. Like I said, I don't think I would have found out what was wrong until after the fuel pump totally died.
 
From your first round of trouble in July you replaced:

"Throttle Position Sensor
Intake hose,(cracked and chunks missing)
O-rings for fuel injectors
fuel dampener
fuel pressure regulator
intake manifold gasket
Fuel filter
New spark plugs
New wires

The only thing left i can think of is the fuel pump."

Then you replaced the air flow meter and it seemed like it was fixed.

I still suspect fuel pump, mostly because it sounds nearly exactly like the gremlins I chased for months. Not much else to really replace except for rotar & cap & air filter. There is all those vacuum lines and the main relay and fuel pump relay and I gues you should check the calibration of the new throttle body sensor.

My carbon cannister has not worked per FSM for years and I keep thinking to replace it. Actually want to cut it in half clean it out, fill it with new carbon, and then weld a tounge & groove seal with a couple of latches. But I keep blowing it off because the rig runs fine now.

Have you pulled codes recently? I don't remember the codes I had but I did pull out the ECU and check it per FSM - no problems.

I don't exactly know why but I think (and gurus chime in here) if the system is not getting fuel the ECU is smart enough to not send spark. Fuel pressure is an input into the ECU. Would have to see the ladder diagram on the ECU to know for sure.

Sounds like an intermittent fuel pump. Doesn't look like you have dropped the tank yet but it really is not that bad of a job unless there are some rusted and locked on bolts. Like I said, I don't think I would have found out what was wrong until after the fuel pump totally died.

My plan was to drop the tank last weekend but had some things come up on the work front and ended up having to work. If all goes according to plan i am going to drop the tank tomorrow. I cant check for codes because the CEL light is not coming on at all. I tried doing to paper clip jumper to get the codes but nothing happened. I also did the Fp and +B to test the fuel pump and got nothing there either.

Since that list of replacement parts was posted i have replaced the air filter. Have not replaced the cap and rotor but as there is no spark getting there to begin with i wouldn't think it to be suspect right now. Thanks for the help guys.
 
Check engine light.. maybe the bulb is bad.

Should have got the pump to turn by jumping it at the testing box thing. Guess it could also be bad wiring to the pump but I think you already checked the connections in the rear quarter panel. Or the pump relay which is in the passenger kick panel you could pull that and test it.


Good luck
 

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