No longer urgent—strange sounds on a road trip, 100 series (2 Viewers)

[mdcoa]

100 series on the way back from some camping and off-roading. Driving down 66–bang! Whap whap whap.

thought we ran over something and have a flat but it appears to be drivetrain.
When jacked u both front where turn fine—no noise from driveshaft, diff, or cv.
Thoughts on making it home? Drop front driveshaft and lock center diff?
Just calL a tow truck? Other things to test?

 

[94YotaGuy]

Last time I had a bang and whap whap whap it was my AC belt snapping and getting smacked against stuff in the engine bay. Other than the noise, were there any warning lights or driveability issues?

 

[mdcoa]

No, no warning signs. Only happens when rolling, and sound increases with speed increase. No broken belts under the hood.

 

[94YotaGuy]

No, no warning signs. Only happens when rolling, and sound increases with speed increase. No broken belts under the hood.

I'm not a master mechanic, but if the only symptom is the noise, I'd try to carefully limp home or to the nearest shop. I'm also reckless and my advice is usually not the best option.

 

[mdcoa]

Front and rear driveshafts appear to be good. Goes into and out of lo range. Center diff lock actuated and disengages.
im stumped. Front diff?

I'm not a master mechanic, but if the only symptom is the noise, I'd try to carefully limp home or to the nearest shop. I'm also reckless and my advice is usually not the best option.

We’re going to limp home! And now the noise has mysteriously stopped. Will keep you posted!

 

[94YotaGuy]

Front and rear driveshafts appear to be good. Goes into and out of lo range. Center diff lock actuated and disengages.
im stumped. Front diff?


We’re going to limp home! And now the noise has mysteriously stopped. Will keep you posted!

It could have been something as simple as a piece of rope wrapped around a drive shaft. Hopefully the noise stays gone. Let us know if you need anything.

 

[mdcoa]

So the knock is still gone, but there’s a weird noise when braking—just crawled underneath—nothing visibly wrong with front brakes, calipers on solid, etc. going to drive home gingerly and the wrack my brain.

 

[mdcoa]

Nope, turns out it’s not just braking—happens on overrun, too. Going to jack back up when I get home and check tie rod ends etc. and give the wheel bearings more scrutiny. I’ll be very interested to find out what this is—the whap whap sure sounded metallic. Will also pop off the hub caps and check the shaft washers.

 

[NearJetties]

If it’s not a CV on its way out my guess is a hub issue probably related to preload.

 

[mdcoa]

Got off the interstate and limped home to on US 50 and 29 to keep speeds down and enable quick pull-offs if necessary.

And tonight I finally got time to take a look--jacked up both side again and pulled the front skid plate for better visibility. Some side to side play on both front wheels, but not much, and not the kind of clunking play you'd expect if an inner or outer tie rod were bad. On the DS wheel, some play in the wheel when holding at 12 and 6 and wiggling--so it's either wheel bearings or ball joints, but I just immediately assumed wheel bearings, which I now realize is dumb, since the clunking ONLY occurs when wiggling at 12 and 6, and would be there in all directions if bearings were to blame, so maybe ball joints--will check those tomorrow.

Beginning to suspect this is not at all related to the dramatic bang and whap whap whap (which still remains a mystery--I could've sworn it was a catastrophic flat or a U-joint blowing up), but just became noticeable right after.
More to follow--thanks for the help, folks!

 

[mdcoa]

OK, so after a good night's sleep and with the benefit of daylight, the latest:

--I was wrong--no play in DS wheel when wiggling with hands at 12 and 6. (Although it probably is time to do wheel bearing grease and adjustment.)
--no movement in lower ball joint on DS when LCA jacked up and shovel inserted under tire and levered up and down
--there is some play in both wheels when hands are at 9 and 3.
--no visible play in outer tie rod ends
--some movement of rack that's clearly just wiggling the steering column, which might just be normal.
--some clunk on the DS that makes me think the inner tie rod end is bad.
Video:



Truck is an 04 with nearly 150k miles on it--there is some movement in the steering rack. Toyota records indicate that neither inner or outer tie rod ends have ever been replaced. Have not noticed any loss in PS fluid since I've owned it (18 mos/20k miles)

So do I:
1) replace all tie rod ends
2) replace only the DS inner
3) or replace the rack, which comes with inners, so is only about $400 more (in parts, assuming I tackle the job myself) than a pair of 555 inner TREs. Not that that's chump change, but TREs at 120 vs rack at 520 . . . makes me wonder if it's time to tackle the infamous PITA. I've done a driveway engine replacement on our 02 Volvo, so no stranger to the crappy jobs, and the neighbors probably already are hoping someone will tear this place down and build a 5000 square foot box on it. . .

About to go try to pull the boots to verify the play is in the inner TRE and not the rack itself. . .

 

[mdcoa]

Apparently not the inner TRE that’s the problem...maybe time for a new rack? Or should I just do wheel bearings (overdue for a repack/adjustment anyway) and see where that leaves me?

 

[fjman]

This may be way off but I had a "wapping" noise that was very sporatic at first and initially could be heard on the highway. Then only when moving and then at start up... Belt tensioner maybe? You'll see it vibrating while its idling. Mine went out around 165k-ish on the LX

 

[mdcoa]

Thanks! This was more like something metal whacking something metal, and it's stopped, which is bizarre. We could feel it in the floor. Does makes me wonder if something fell off something and got wrapped around a driveshaft, and now I'm just noticing a new and totally unrelated vibration on decel.

I just greased the front driveshaft--am going to take it for a spin and see if the noise is still there. if it's gone or changed, then maybe it's a bad ujoint or spline. Then will do the same to rear driveshaft.

If neither of those gets me any further, I'll probably end up pulling the front driveshaft and hub flanges and driving around without anything but the wheels spinning up front to rule out CVs and diff.

Thanks for the ideas!!

 

[mdcoa]

For anyone interested in the slow process of me pounding my forehead on things . . . no change from greasing driveshafts or pulling front driveshaft. Vibration has now returned to a clunk clunk--sure sounds like a bad ujoint. Maybe it's a rear one, although it sure sounds like it's coming from up front. Today going to pull the front drive flanges and remove front diff and CVs from the equation.

Here's the sound (it's the low clunk not the junk clattering around on my console . . . ).

 

[fjman]

It actually sounds exactly like the tensioner pulley! If I remember correctly, my first thought was that it was something in the suspension too. Not trying to say I’m definitely right, but if you haven’t checked it, I would! Pretty cheap and relatively easy fix

 

[mdcoa]

It actually sounds exactly like the tensioner pulley! If I remember correctly, my first thought was that it was something in the suspension too. Not trying to say I’m definitely right, but if you haven’t checked it, I would! Pretty cheap and relatively easy fix

I sure wish it were the tensioner pulley, but it's apparently the front diff.

Yesterday I had pulled the front driveshaft; today I pulled both drive flanges. No noise. Reinstalled one. No noise. Pulled that one and reinstalled the other. No noise. Reinstalled that one--noise is back. So it's in the diff. I'll bet I weakened it on some offroad stuff and then it just decided to throw in the towel on I-66. Now that I've had time to research, I've read of several other diff failures in random places.

Anyone know of a good diff builder in the area, or should I just try to get Slee or Just Differentials to build me something? Thinking I might go with a locker . . .

Once I get the diff out and opened up and survey the carnage, I'll decide whether to buy new bits to rebuild/upgrade this or buy a new one, but it'd sure be nice to have a local builder either way.

 

[fjman]

I’m pretty sure @OTRAMM can do it but not sure about timeline.

 

[bkfj40]

Have you checked the diff fluid? If you drain it, you might get some insight on it.

I knew that the early 100s had front diff issues, but thought that it went away in the newer models. I seem to remember something about 2 versus 4 spider gears, but unsure. Diffs are a mystery to me.

 

[mdcoa]

Yup, sorry for not updating this thread. Totally the diff. I drained it in the process of pulling the CVs and dropping it, and there were chunks. Once I had it out, I pulled the cover. Broken tooth on the ring gear. No damage to the pinion that I could see by peering through it.

Bringing it down to East Coast Gear Supply in Raleigh next week for new R&P and a Harrop e-locker.

I shared your impression that the only weak 100 series front diffs were the early two-pinion ones, but apparently 100 series front diffs just come two flavors: really weak and weak. The Harrop carrier should help minimize ring gear flex, so should make it a good bit stronger. But I'm still not going to pull heavy objects backwards again--these high-pinion diffs are particularly vulnerable to heavy loads in reverse. . .