Newbie Needs Help 2006 LX470 (1 Viewer)

[Passiac16]

Hello all,

I am a big fan of all the experts out here and amazed at your depth of knowledge. I finally pulled the trigger on a 2006 LX470 with 93,000 miles, 10 years of it in Florida, IMHO great condition, minimal rust, with good service record. Sadly, I believe my ABS Control Module has failed (taking it today to Lexus to confirm). Any thoughts on whether I should do the repair (likely a few thousand dollars) or just bite my tongue and trade it in. I love the car, have always wanted it, but it cost me around 20K and I really cannot afford another 4-5k in it right now. It also needs new CV boots. Waterpump/TB was already done. Thank you for all you help!

 

[IndroCruise]

Hello all,

I am a big fan of all the experts out here and amazed at your depth of knowledge. I finally pulled the trigger on a 2006 LX470 with 93,000 miles, 10 years of it in Florida, IMHO great condition, minimal rust, with good service record. Sadly, I believe my ABS Control Module has failed (taking it today to Lexus to confirm). Any thoughts on whether I should do the repair (likely a few thousand dollars) or just bite my tongue and trade it in. I love the car, have always wanted it, but it cost me around 20K and I really cannot afford another 4-5k in it right now. It also needs new CV boots. Waterpump/TB was already done. Thank you for all you help!

Suggest do not despair just yet. Go slowly, provide some additional information about the symptoms you are seeing? How exactly is the vehicle and the brake system behaving? What warning lights and sounds are happening? Are you meaning brake failure with warning lights and buzzer alarm? Or something else? What exactly do you mean by the "ABS Control Module has failed"? Have you been able to identify any Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) with Techstream or is this what you want the Lexus Dealer to do?

The problem seems unusual in a young (2006, 93,000 miles) LX470, well-maintained and with good under-body condition. There are people on this forum who can provide answers if given good information -- so please tell us a bit more about the problem and the observed symptoms and let's see if we can help.

One simple starting point might be to check wheel speed sensor connections -- always best to begin with easy things first.

 

[jLB]

Any thoughts on whether I should do the repair (likely a few thousand dollars) or just bite my tongue and trade it in. I love the car, have always wanted it, but it cost me around 20K and I really cannot afford another 4-5k in it right now. It also needs new CV boots.

I’d suspect that trading in a “broken vehicle”, you’re going to get “raped” on the valuation of your vehicle. Current gas prices don’t help much either.

Then you’re going to have to purchase a replacement, the last time I checked, the new/used car market was still crazy, due to a lack of inventory, from the pandemic.

I’d lean towards getting the problem diagnosed and fixed properly, but what opinion would you expect, from someone that has three of these beasts in their driveway?

 

[Passiac16]

Thank you both for your replies. I certainly DO NOT want to get rid of this ride, I absolutely love it and nothing out there even perks my interest. My ABS, VSC, Brake light all went on along with the warning sound. Brakes initally worked but went totally soft by the time I got to the dealer. I am awaiting what the dealer says but based upon my research here, it sounds like ABS control module. I will update you guys when I get more information. Its amazing how much of a community this is, part of the reason why I wanted to take part. Thank you again.

 

[Bisho]

We’ll, it’s likely the electric motor or a full up leak in a line, but the dealer sells it as an assembly.

 

[Passiac16]

Unfortunately, it is the module (they wouldn't specify which part). They are quoting 3k for parts+ install. I am inclined to go for the repair, thank you all for helping me through this. Now I just have a wait a few weeks for the part to come in from Japan, at least they gave me a free loaner. Should I ask to keep the old module just in case?

 

[IndroCruise]

Unfortunately, it is the module (they wouldn't specify which part). They are quoting 3k for parts+ install. I am inclined to go for the repair, thank you all for helping me through this. Now I just have a wait a few weeks for the part to come in from Japan, at least they gave me a free loaner. Should I ask to keep the old module just in case?

Good news that the fix was confirmed. Expensive – but it is a vital component and not one you should have to worry about again for at least another 16 years!

As the Owner of another 2006 vehicle (215,000 kilometres = 133,600 miles), this early failure does make me worry!

Browsing posts and other reports, it seems at least possible that the actual fault lies in the small electric motor at the bottom of the assembly. This drives the pump which in turn recharges the accumulator (stores energy by compressing nitrogen in the accumulator). When the foot brake is applied, the accumulator releases energy from expanding nitrogen which pushes on a piston and causes added pressure to the hydraulic brake system. In that way it amplifies the braking force from the brake pedal. It is this pump-and-motor which you can hear on starting the engine. It operates whenever the accumulator needs recharging but generally it is not heard when the vehicle is operating. It is a simple 12 volt motor but brushes and commutator eventually wear, although usually only become problematic much, much later than in your experience. Ingress of brake fluid and corrosion damage at the motor terminals also can occur here and prevent or reduce voltage and effectiveness of pump operation.

Lexus and Toyota Dealers never seem interested in repairing or replacing the motor – and the motor can be hard to find as a separate replacement part anyway. There is some merit in replacing the whole module – motor, pump, accumulator, actuators, master cylinder, etc -- because then you know that it is all new and reliable – not just some of it.

My recommendation is to insist that the Dealer returns the whole old module to you, fully intact. It is yours, not theirs. Hopefully, you will never need the parts but it is a valuable item even in its current condition. You may find it is interesting to look it over and figure out how it all works. Alternatively, it may be of interest to another person as a gift or for sale on eBay etc.

I guess I was wondering at the start of this thread whether the problem lay in the Wheel Speed Sensors or their connectors/harness (a more common problem, much simpler and cheaper to fix), or, in the ABS relays (unusual, but see locations in pic far below), or, in the relevant ABS Electronic Control Unit (ECU) -- a much rarer problem. This one of several ECU's located under the dashboard. The various relays and ABS ECU controls the module in the engine bay. Hopefully you never need the information -- but here is an interesting thread concerning this ECU – although delving into its internals is way above my paygrade!

Fix for ABS, VSC TRAC, VSC OFF, & Brake lights remain on no CEL, or how to repair an ECU - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/fix-for-abs-vsc-trac-vsc-off-brake-lights-remain-on-no-cel-or-how-to-repair-an-ecu.1122305/

More visuals on the engine bay module and including the electric motor which recharges the accumulator, can be seen here:



If you want to follow what the Dealer is doing, you may wish to read up on the ABS system diagnostics in the Factory Service Manual. These can be found at the references below – these LC100 references apply equally to LX470. For an expensive repair such as this, the Dealer should be able to tell you what Diagnostic Trouble Codes – DTC’s – were found, what physical observations were relevant, and from all of this taken together, be able to explain their diagnostic reasoning. Unwillingness -- "wouldn't explain which part" -- connotes either defensive lack of knowledge, or poor customer service, or both.

See ….

LC100 Workshop Manual - https://lc100e.github.io/ -- at index panel on LHS of opening page, scroll to

+ Repair Manual
+ DIAGNOSTICS
+ ABS & HYDRAULIC BOOSTER POWER SUPPLY SYSTEM
also
+ ANTI-LOCK BRAKE SYSTEM
and
+ ABS & VEHICLE STABILITY CONTROL (VSC) & BRAKE ASSIST (BA)

For actual repair information, go to

LC100 Workshop Manual - https://lc100e.github.io/ -- at index panel on LHS of opening page, scroll to

+ Repair Manual
+ Brake

Late edit: See more information by @2001LC in "Brakes" section of his "Master Thread":

Master thread: Buying, PM & Advance Maintenance of 100 & 200 series.

I've been a Land Cruiser fan since 2001. I first found ih8mud in 2005. I've learned and still learning everyday from the many contributors of mud. Thank you all! First thing I learned is 100 series are tanks, that just keep going. But even tanks need maintaining. This thread is dedicated to...

forum.ih8mud.com

Hope all goes well!

 

[Passiac16]

Thank you for your

Good news that the fix was confirmed. Expensive – but it is a vital component and not one you should have to worry about again for at least another 16 years!

As the Owner of another 2006 vehicle (215,000 kilometres = 133,600 miles), this early failure does make me worry!

Browsing posts and other reports, it seems at least possible that the actual fault lies in the small electric motor at the bottom of the assembly. This drives the pump which in turn recharges the accumulator (stores energy by compressing nitrogen in the accumulator). When the foot brake is applied, the accumulator releases energy from expanding nitrogen which pushes on a piston and causes added pressure to the hydraulic brake system. In that way it amplifies the braking force from the brake pedal. It is this pump-and-motor which you can hear on starting the engine. It operates whenever the accumulator needs recharging but generally it is not heard when the vehicle is operating. It is a simple 12 volt motor but brushes and commutator eventually wear, although usually only become problematic much, much later than in your experience. Ingress of brake fluid and corrosion damage at the motor terminals also can occur here and prevent or reduce voltage and effectiveness of pump operation.

Lexus and Toyota Dealers never seem interested in repairing or replacing the motor – and the motor can be hard to find as a separate replacement part anyway. There is some merit in replacing the whole module – pump, accumulator, actuators, master cylinder, etc -- because then you know that it is all new and reliable – not just some of it.

My recommendation is to insist that the Dealer returns the whole old module to you, fully intact. It is yours, not theirs. Hopefully, you will never need the parts but it is a valuable item even in its current condition. You may find it is interesting to look it over and figure out how it all works. Alternatively, it may be of interest to another person as a gift or for sale on eBay etc.

I guess I was wondering at the start of this thread whether the problem lay in the Wheel Speed Sensors or their connectors/harness (a more common problem, much simpler and cheaper to fix), or, in the ABS relays (unusual, but see locations in pic far below), or, in the relevant ABS Electronic Control Unit (ECU) -- a much rarer problem. This one of several ECU's located under the dashboard. The various relays and ABS ECU controls the module in the engine bay. Hopefully you never need the information -- but here is an interesting thread concerning this ECU – although delving into its internals is way above my paygrade!

Fix for ABS, VSC TRAC, VSC OFF, & Brake lights remain on no CEL, or how to repair an ECU - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/fix-for-abs-vsc-trac-vsc-off-brake-lights-remain-on-no-cel-or-how-to-repair-an-ecu.1122305/

More visuals on the engine bay module and including the electric motor which recharges the accumulator, can be seen here:



If you want to follow what the Dealer is doing, you may wish to read up on the ABS system diagnostics in the Factory Service Manual. These can be found at the references below – these LC100 references apply equally to LX470. For an expensive repair such as this, the Dealer should be able to tell you what Diagnostic Trouble Codes – DTC’s – were found, what physical observations were relevant, and from all of this taken together, be able to explain their diagnostic reasoning. Unwillingness -- "wouldn't explain which part" -- connotes either defensive lack of knowledge, or poor customer service, or both.

See ….

LC100 Workshop Manual - https://lc100e.github.io/ -- at index panel on LHS of opening page, scroll to

+ Repair Manual
+ DIAGNOSTICS
+ ABS & HYDRAULIC BOOSTER POWER SUPPLY SYSTEM
also
+ ANTI-LOCK BRAKE SYSTEM
and
+ ABS & VEHICLE STABILITY CONTROL (VSC) & BRAKE ASSIST (BA)

For actual repair information, go to

LC100 Workshop Manual - https://lc100e.github.io/ -- at index panel on LHS of opening page, scroll to

+ Repair Manual
+ Brake

Late edit: See more information by @2001LC in "Brakes" section of his "Master Thread":

Master thread: Buying, PM & Advance Maintenance of 100 & 200 series.

I've been a Land Cruiser fan since 2001. I first found ih8mud in 2005. I've learned and still learning everyday from the many contributors of mud. Thank you all! First thing I learned is 100 series are tanks, that just keep going. But even tanks need maintaining. This thread is dedicated to...

forum.ih8mud.com

Hope all goes well!

View attachment 3011443

Thank you for your advice, I will definitly take the part. I hope that they correctly identified the issue as the module and not the motor itself, which I surmise can also cause the above issues. I appreciate your lengthy piece, I will definitley read up on it, learning a ton day by day.

 

[Bisho]

Thank you for your

Thank you for your advice, I will definitly take the part. I hope that they correctly identified the issue as the module and not the motor itself, which I surmise can also cause the above issues. I appreciate your lengthy piece, I will definitley read up on it, learning a ton day by day.

The “module” includes the motor. Toyota only sells that whole contraption as an assembly.

 

[CBdeJ]

Not true. You can buy the master cylinder separate from the pump/accumulator (though buying them as a complete unit saves money of getting them separately).

OP, you should take a look at partsouq. Type in your vin and the parts diagrams and prices/parts for your truck will be displayed. If it is just the pump you might save hundreds if not thousands by purchasing the part/s and having an independent shop do the work.

 

[Bisho]

When I looked you could only buy a MC rebuild kit (orings and piston, IIRC), but that didn’t sound at all like the OPs issue.

 

[nissanh]

93K miles is very low miles to fail the brake pump. I am at 242K miles and going good. Yes, bought a brand new unit just in case.

My cousin who owns a 01 Montero got the brake pump fixed with a refurbished electric motor and a brand new OEM accumulator. The motor fails if the accumulator is leaking gas. Oh.. He did it for the first time on his own and even bled the brakes.

 

[IndroCruise]

Suspect that @CBdeJ and @Bisho and @nissanh all may be correct in their own way. Last time I asked about this at Toyota Australia, their answer was to buy the entire assembly (Master Cylinder/Reservoir plus Motor/Pump/Accumulator together), said they would not supply the individual segments -- maybe the same at Toyota/Lexus in USA??

The actual ABS Electronic Control Unit (ECU) located under the dash was/is a separate and expensive deal -- -- sometimes this is described as the "ABS Control Module" just to keep us all confused.

Had I proceeded at the time, I would have bought only the new OEM segments that I wanted and used partsouq in UAE due to previous good service and better delivered prices (even after import duties and taxes in Australia and DHL freight from UAE) -- and my preferred independent mechanic and brake specialist was prepared to go along with this. I did not want non-OEM nor re-built items. However, I deferred the project and the expense (preventative not breakdown maintenance in my case) because the vehicle was still young (2006, 215,000 kilometres = 133,600 miles) and there were no adverse signs in brake performance, accumulator operation and re-charge time were normal, etc, etc.

For the information of new OP @Passiac16, investigating pricing at overseas suppliers such as partsouq, impex, others, compared with local suppliers generally is a good idea, particularly as familiarity with the vehicle grows and there may be some willingness to undertake DIY work or develop a relationship with a local independent mechanic. Often there are significant savings in importing which are too large to ignore. Sometimes the savings are not worthwhile, or more than DIY expertise is required, and then it is better to support local businesses. When it comes to this brake system it is better to proceed with expert knowledge -- either personally-held or from a Toyota/Lexus Dealer or from an independent brake specialist.

As an example on pricing (USD, add freight cost to your destination), see -- PartSouq Auto Parts Around the World - https://partsouq.com/ -- then using my VIN (others will have different VIN but likely will result in same Part Number):

 

[Passiac16]

Suspect that @CBdeJ and @Bisho and @nissanh all may be correct in their own way. Last time I asked about this at Toyota Australia, their answer was to buy the entire assembly (Master Cylinder/Reservoir plus Motor/Pump/Accumulator together), said they would not supply the individual segments -- maybe the same at Toyota/Lexus in USA??

The actual ABS Electronic Control Unit (ECU) located under the dash was/is a separate and expensive deal -- -- sometimes this is described as the "ABS Control Module" just to keep us all confused.

Had I proceeded at the time, I would have bought only the new OEM segments that I wanted and used partsouq in UAE due to previous good service and better delivered prices (even after import duties and taxes in Australia and DHL freight from UAE) -- and my preferred independent mechanic and brake specialist was prepared to go along with this. I did not want non-OEM nor re-built items. However, I deferred the project and the expense (preventative not breakdown maintenance in my case) because the vehicle was still young (2006, 215,000 kilometres = 133,600 miles) and there were no adverse signs in brake performance, accumulator operation and re-charge time were normal, etc, etc.

For the information of new OP @Passiac16, investigating pricing at overseas suppliers such as partsouq, impex, others, compared with local suppliers generally is a good idea, particularly as familiarity with the vehicle grows and there may be some willingness to undertake DIY work or develop a relationship with a local independent mechanic. Often there are significant savings in importing which are too large to ignore. Sometimes the savings are not worthwhile, or more than DIY expertise is required, and then it is better to support local businesses. When it comes to this brake system it is better to proceed with expert knowledge -- either personally-held or from a Toyota/Lexus Dealer or from an independent brake specialist.

As an example on pricing (USD, add freight cost to your destination), see -- PartSouq Auto Parts Around the World - https://partsouq.com/ -- then using my VIN (others will have different VIN but likely will result in same Part Number):

View attachment 3012433

View attachment 3012434

View attachment 3012435

I reached out to them again to confirm they are swapping the whole master cylinder and booster assembly (part above). They are charging 3k for parts+labor, I get 15% off as a first responder from the dealer, and free loaner for two weeks while they wait for the part. Not what I expected only a few weeks into ownership but hope its a good investment. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Passiac16]

93K miles is very low miles to fail the brake pump. I am at 242K miles and going good. Yes, bought a brand new unit just in case.

My cousin who owns a 01 Montero got the brake pump fixed with a refurbished electric motor and a brand new OEM accumulator. The motor fails if the accumulator is leaking gas. Oh.. He did it for the first time on his own and even bled the brakes.

Agreed, dealer said they have only seen one other failure like mine (2015 ES350).

 

[IndroCruise]

All good -- looks like you are on the way to recovery and being able to enjoy the truck!!

Just to complete the story from my Posts #7 and #13 in this thread, the pic below gives the details of the under-the-dash ABS Electronic Control Unit for 2006 UZJ100 -- given the price, hopefully none of us ever need to replace it!!