New to off-road builds- a little help? (1 Viewer)

[Cruzerman]

This was from Andrew Saint Pierre White in South Africa. I measured the air just over my driveway at 130° a year or two ago, and I am in LA. It occurs to me that cooler air is most likely a good thing. Just one more reason to snork it.

If you measured the temperature of 130 degrees in Los Angeles, your thermometer is broken. And are you saying that you need a snorkel because you live in LA? I can't think of a place where it is less useful.

Why can't people with snorkel just say that they like how they look or how it makes them feel instead of reaching for technical reasons that are a stretch at best and don't apply to their situation anyhow? I have some things on my rig that I put on because I like them and only because I like them. That's a good enough reason for me to do something. People build all kinds of lifted, armored, winch installed rigs and never go anywhere but to work and back. It's their money, their rig. But why claim it's because I go camping once a year? What's wrong with saying I like the way it looks?

 

[Azca]

If you measured the temperature of 130 degrees in Los Angeles, your thermometer is broken. And are you saying that you need a snorkel because you live in LA? I can't think of a place where it is less useful.

Why can't people with snorkel just say that they like how they look or how it makes them feel instead of reaching for technical reasons that are a stretch at best and don't apply to their situation anyhow? I have some things on my rig that I put on because I like them and only because I like them. That's a good enough reason for me to do something. People build all kinds of lifted, armored, winch installed rigs and never go anywhere but to work and back. It's their money, their rig. But why claim it's because I go camping once a year? What's wrong with saying I like the way it looks?

Okay, I like how it looks. BUT - There are reasons to have one outside of looks and I purchased it for these reasons:

1. It does lower the IAT and while not a huge improvement can assist in preventing engine knock (which I had a problem with prior to rebuilding the engine)
2. Cleaner air is always a benefit. There is a difference from picking up air closer to the ground and 6 feet up, especially here in the southwest.
3. It can save the owner a huge amount of money should they accidentally, or purposely, submerge the front of their vehicle and prevent the engine from ingesting water. Which is the primary reason I bought it and consider it very valuable after rebuilding the engine. It is CHEAP insurance.
4. And not a reason I bought it but a true advantage, chicks dig snorkles!

You can measure temps in LA at 130 or above. You will not be in the shade but IAT will read over 130. Will it be "official" no, but it does get hot there and yes, I also lived there before deciding that I should leave it to the wackos...

 

[Cruzerman]

I don't feel you're arguments carry any weight, but I would like to learn if I am wrong.

1. Are you saying that the slightly lower AIT makes a difference in engine knock? That makes no sense to me. I'm no expert, so if you can direct me to information on this it would be a learning experience for me.
2.As to the cleaner air entering the engine from 6 feet up, it just isn't the case. Again, these rigs have insanely great air cleaning systems from Toyota. The slightly more dirt you may take in using the stock system intake location isn't getting into the engine anyhow. Plus, you live in LA which is almost all paved. Even if it were true, which I highly, highly doubt, I don't see how it applies to you?
3.You're doing deep water crossings? Really? These aren't diesels.
4.My chick sure doesn't dig snorkels. She actually knows about four wheeling.

And I can get a thermometer to read over 130 here in Oregon too. Have no idea what that has to do with AIT.

 

[jaymar]

If you measured the temperature of 130 degrees in Los Angeles, your thermometer is broken. And are you saying that you need a snorkel because you live in LA? I can't think of a place where it is less useful.

Why can't people with snorkel just say that they like how they look or how it makes them feel instead of reaching for technical reasons that are a stretch at best and don't apply to their situation anyhow? I have some things on my rig that I put on because I like them and only because I like them. That's a good enough reason for me to do something. People build all kinds of lifted, armored, winch installed rigs and never go anywhere but to work and back. It's their money, their rig. But why claim it's because I go camping once a year? What's wrong with saying I like the way it looks?

I don’t particularly like the way they look. It’s a food thermometer and working just fine. Three inches off black driveway was 130 degrees. Air temp was 117, according to the National Weather Service. Presumably their thermometer is in working order.

As to bumpers, I’m far more concerned about getting hit by other vehicles than by stray deer. Last SUV was totaled in a head-on hit-and-run, people and dogs on board. LC is ARBed. Hit this and run, baby.

 

[leonard_nemoy]

Picture is worth a thousand words

 

[White Stripe]

They make pre filters for snorkels to help reduce dust going into the main air filter. Most of the time I think their are better ways to spend your time and money on a cruiser. Especially when it's a cruiser that obviously needs tons of work but the owner installed a snorkel first thing. Most of the wiring on a 80 needs to be waterproofed to make it water crossing ready. My last 80 couldn't even take a engine bay wash without electrical issues. Guy at work washed off his 1fz at the car wash. It's been in the shop ever since.

 

[Cruzerman]

Picture is worth a thousand words
View attachment 1953380

Looks to me that the air is just as dirty at snorkel height. Additionally, I would never follow that close. How can you even see where you are going in those conditions?

 

[leonard_nemoy]

Looks to me that the air is just as dirty at snorkel height. Additionally, I would never follow that close. How can you even see where you are going in those conditions?

Lol I don't know, it's not me. Just a picture I found. But that doesn't make much sense because the grill and headlights where the oem intake is located is covered in dust and the snorkel is clearly free from the dust.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

If it's a 4x4, it should have a snorkel.
Case in point (Not a cruiser but...) I daily a Ford PX2 ranger (Don't know if you get them over there) has a 3.2 litre 5 cylinder TD under the bonnet. Didn't fit a snorkel because it didn't 'need' one as it was a daily and didn't do proper 4x4ing. I drove it through about 400mm deep puddle of water on a forest road I was driving along. It was still on 2wd and the water wasn't even over the wheels. Waited for the guy in front to go through to check the depth. She didn't drive out of the water...
4 weeks, a new long block, injectors and turbo later ( And $18k) she's driving again. It now has a snorkel too... Should have done it immediately on purchase. All I'm trying to say is, it doesn't take much water or much time, before something can get awkward and expensive. I don't think it's worth the risk.

 

[Heckraiser]

I've done several water crossings up to the top of the bumper/bottom of the grille, I've even seen water splashing out of the gap between the hood and the fender, and never had an issue electrical, water ingestion or otherwise. I think the stock intake is pretty well designed. Speed and technique also factors in when crossing water. Clearly a snorkel is not *needed* as I have been wheeling for a couple decades without one. I don't know about that ford, but I'm guessing the intake design allows a lot more direct path to the air filter than an 80's air can. Heck, lots of people driving hondas with open element intakes have hydrolocked just by driving through a normal puddle.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

I've done several water crossings up to the top of the bumper/bottom of the grille, I've even seen water splashing out of the gap between the hood and the fender, and never had an issue electrical, water ingestion or otherwise. I think the stock intake is pretty well designed. Speed and technique also factors in when crossing water. Clearly a snorkel is not *needed* as I have been wheeling for a couple decades without one. I don't know about that ford, but I'm guessing the intake design allows a lot more direct path to the air filter than an 80's air can. Heck, lots of people driving hondas with open element intakes have hydrolocked just by driving through a normal puddle.

I agree that a ford is definitely not an 80, and seems that Mr yota did a good job of designing the intake, but I guess once bitten twice shy. YMMV

 

[Azca]

I have had two vehicles I was in where the front end went under water to the point of getting up to the windshield. Yes I know, should have checked first. First was my fathers (he was driving), second was mine. First was a blazer, second a Toyota pickup. On the pickup I got lucky and the front end came up quickly. When I got out of the water I immediately popped the hood and found muddy water around the air cleaner.

As far as the pinging, mine was bad. The snorkel did improve it, slightly as it would begin with higher ambient temps. I can't quantify it however. If someone has pinging, perhaps remove the boot as it transitions to the air cleaner as a test.

Bottom line. I am happy with it and no one can dissuade me from believing that there is a benefit to having one.

 

[ColoradoBoy]

Not sure if you tried Bill (Bill’s toy shop) in Farmington. He was out of town on a trip but messaged me he got back yesterday. So give him a ring. He did say he has a pretty full schedule so I doubt he can work on anything immediately. Time is the price you pay for someone in high demand.

Home - Bills Toy Shop, Toyota, Lexus, Scion, Farmington, NM

You could also try Justin at High Country Cruisers in Pagosa Springs.

Bills Toy Shop is closed permantly.

 

[Corbet]

Bills Toy Shop is closed permantly.

Yah, that is rather recent.

 

[Box Rocket]

Looks to me that the air is just as dirty at snorkel height. Additionally, I would never follow that close. How can you even see where you are going in those conditions?

You've got an argument for everything it sounds like. I assume based on your comments that you don't have a snorkel and therefore no firsthand experience with them on an 80? If you do, the feel free to correct me, but if not, maybe those with experience and actual results should be considered.

From my personal experience, summertime here in Utah is generally in the 90s-low 100s. My cruiser runs a good 10-15* cooler in the summertime with the snorkel, than it did without. Different locations and vehicle configurations may have slightly different results. But, it is factual that the snorkel can lower IAT.

Utah isn't necessarily a place where deep water crossings are an issue, but there are still plenty of crossings that can easily be deeper than the factory intake location. Plain and simple, a snorkel is cheap insurance for water protection. Ive had crossing that put water over the hood which is deeper than the factory air intake. Others have hydrolocked motors just splashing through puddles. Doesn't need to be deep water to cause a problem. I'd rather spend a little on a snorkel than thousands for a motor replacement caused by a hydrolock. If someone chooses not to use a snorkel for that purpose, fine, that's their choice. (Frankly, I like the look of an 80 without a snorkel better than one with a snorkel, but I have one for a legitimately practical reason.)

Dust intrusion. Yeah the factory intake is pretty darn good on the 80s. However, again from firsthand experience, while on a longer offroad trip a few years ago our group traveled over 1000 miles of dirt roads across Utah's desert. Some trucks had snorkels, others did not. One 80 in particular without a snorkel needed to remove the air filter and shake the dust out of it because he was starting to feel a loss in power. LOTS of dust in the air filter and it ran better after cleaning the filter. The trucks with snorkels (mine included) had significantly less dust in the filters and had no need to be cleaned out.
Here in Utah's desert dust is a legitimate concern. In Oregon where you are, it may not be with the wetter climate. So maybe it's unnecessary for you as a solution for dust. And if you don't do water crossing of any real depth, then it's probably not a worthwhile modification for you. But calling it "stupid" is just ignorant since they are quite worthwhile for others and how they use their 80s.

Again, while you may not see a justified reason for one, there most definitely is for some, beyond just looks. But sure, many have snorkels because they like how they look. Liking the look doesn't make them any less functional. or unneccesary.

 

[Heckraiser]

Don't forget the rollover protection!

I will agree that there are some legitimate mechanical benefits to a snorkel and really no drawbacks other than looking like a dork. IMO, those benefits do not outweigh my dislike of the looks and drilling holes in a perfectly good cruiser, but again, that's just one man's opinion. I don't think there is any real argument for "stock is a functionally/mechanically better setup."

 

[Cruzerman]

You've got an argument for everything it sounds like. I assume based on your comments that you don't have a snorkel and therefore no firsthand experience with them on an 80? If you do, the feel free to correct me, but if not, maybe those with experience and actual results should be considered.

From my personal experience, summertime here in Utah is generally in the 90s-low 100s. My cruiser runs a good 10-15* cooler in the summertime with the snorkel, than it did without. Different locations and vehicle configurations may have slightly different results. But, it is factual that the snorkel can lower IAT.

Utah isn't necessarily a place where deep water crossings are an issue, but there are still plenty of crossings that can easily be deeper than the factory intake location. Plain and simple, a snorkel is cheap insurance for water protection. Ive had crossing that put water over the hood which is deeper than the factory air intake. Others have hydrolocked motors just splashing through puddles. Doesn't need to be deep water to cause a problem. I'd rather spend a little on a snorkel than thousands for a motor replacement caused by a hydrolock. If someone chooses not to use a snorkel for that purpose, fine, that's their choice. (Frankly, I like the look of an 80 without a snorkel better than one with a snorkel, but I have one for a legitimately practical reason.)

Dust intrusion. Yeah the factory intake is pretty darn good on the 80s. However, again from firsthand experience, while on a longer offroad trip a few years ago our group traveled over 1000 miles of dirt roads across Utah's desert. Some trucks had snorkels, others did not. One 80 in particular without a snorkel needed to remove the air filter and shake the dust out of it because he was starting to feel a loss in power. LOTS of dust in the air filter and it ran better after cleaning the filter. The trucks with snorkels (mine included) had significantly less dust in the filters and had no need to be cleaned out.
Here in Utah's desert dust is a legitimate concern. In Oregon where you are, it may not be with the wetter climate. So maybe it's unnecessary for you as a solution for dust. And if you don't do water crossing of any real depth, then it's probably not a worthwhile modification for you. But calling it "stupid" is just ignorant since they are quite worthwhile for others and how they use their 80s.

Again, while you may not see a justified reason for one, there most definitely is for some, beyond just looks. But sure, many have snorkels because they like how they look. Liking the look doesn't make them any less functional. or unneccesary.

I just base my opinion on owning and wheeling (not daily driving) Land Cruisers for over 30 years. I've owned a 45 wagon, a 60 wagon, a few 40s, and two 80s. I've lived where it gets hot (Chico, CA area is regularly 110+ degrees). Obviously I don't feel there is a legitimate use for them 99.99% of the time and to me (again, it is only my opinion), there is nothing that screams "look at me and my big bad offroad rig" more than a snorkel. I see tons of snorkels everyday on rigs that I'm sure never go off the pavement or at most, make it on a gravel road. But these people also talk about water crossings and such.

I am curious if you are claiming that the snorkel dropped the temp of the engine (i.e. water temp) by 10-15 degrees or at all? That would shock me. Not sure what 10-15 degree intake air temp matters in real-world scenarios.

I do know dust as well. I now live in Oregon and while people think we're all rain and forest, we actually have tons and tons of desert and dust. I've never had any issue with dust. And that is also with thousands of miles of dusty road miles. That's just me. Again, your experience seems to be different. I assume the person with the issue had a real air filter and not a K&N or other such nonsense?

As for deep water crossings, if you're heading into water that is way over the hood, your in trouble with or without a snorkel. Not sure where you live, but here in Oregon, crossing a river / creek is a definite no-no and also doesn't follow the tread lightly standards. Yes, there are some deep puddles. Over the intake location is not an issue really (depends how much over intake location). Create a bow wake and away you go. But I will admit that I don't do deep crossings like that often and actually avoid them. But even with a snorkel, I would avoid them. Way too many electronics on these rigs for deep water crossings.

Again, these are my opinions and am not trying to offend anyone. For you, it sounds like you like the way it looks and feel that you are getting some advantage from it as well. To each his own. Cheers!

 

[Box Rocket]

I just base my opinion on owning and wheeling (not daily driving) Land Cruisers for over 30 years. I've owned a 45 wagon, a 60 wagon, a few 40s, and two 80s. I've lived where it gets hot (Chico, CA area is regularly 110+ degrees). Obviously I don't feel there is a legitimate use for them 99.99% of the time and to me (again, it is only my opinion), there is nothing that screams "look at me and my big bad offroad rig" more than a snorkel. I see tons of snorkels everyday on rigs that I'm sure never go off the pavement or at most, make it on a gravel road. But these people also talk about water crossings and such.

I am curious if you are claiming that the snorkel dropped the temp of the engine (i.e. water temp) by 10-15 degrees or at all? That would shock me. Not sure what 10-15 degree intake air temp matters in real-world scenarios.

I do know dust as well. I now live in Oregon and while people think we're all rain and forest, we actually have tons and tons of desert and dust. I've never had any issue with dust. And that is also with thousands of miles of dusty road miles. That's just me. Again, your experience seems to be different. I assume the person with the issue had a real air filter and not a K&N or other such nonsense?

As for deep water crossings, if you're heading into water that is way over the hood, your in trouble with or without a snorkel. Not sure where you live, but here in Oregon, crossing a river / creek is a definite no-no and also doesn't follow the tread lightly standards. Yes, there are some deep puddles. Over the intake location is not an issue really (depends how much over intake location). Create a bow wake and away you go. But I will admit that I don't do deep crossings like that often and actually avoid them. But even with a snorkel, I would avoid them. Way too many electronics on these rigs for deep water crossings.

Again, these are my opinions and am not trying to offend anyone. For you, it sounds like you like the way it looks and feel that you are getting some advantage from it as well. To each his own. Cheers!

Quite the credentials.

You asked about the drop in temps that I have. I think I said it in the earlier post but I saw a 10-15* drop in intake temps after adding a snorkel, not coolant temps. We don't drive air cooled vehicles so its not going to affect coolant much, but cooler air getting to the motor is a plus.

Your arguments against using a snorkel are based on personal preferences or beliefs.
1: don't like how they look
2: Don't typically travel in groups offroad where dust from others is an issue, or you choose not to follow a vehicle close enough where dust could be a problem.
3: you choose to avoid water crossings where a snorkel would be effective. Don't know about you but in my experience relatively calm water where a perfect bow wave can be maintained isn't always possible. And crossing rivers etc doesn't always violate Tread Lightly principles. There are many roads here in Utah that cross rivers/streams as the designated route. So please don't imply that anyone that encounters water crossing is being irresponsible and not following tread lightly principles.
4: you do not believe in any benefit of cooler air getting to the motor by raising the intake location.

I don't have a problem at all with your choices or your preferences. That's entirely up to you. But there is factual data that supports the benefit of a snorkel in each of those situations besides a like or dislike of how they look. I too have been wheeling Land Cruisers for 30 years (not just daily driving them ) If you ever venture into Utah you're welcome to join me on a trip. I'm sure we could both enjoy it.

 

[Cruzerman]

Quite the credentials.

You asked about the drop in temps that I have. I think I said it in the earlier post but I saw a 10-15* drop in intake temps after adding a snorkel, not coolant temps. We don't drive air cooled vehicles so its not going to affect coolant much, but cooler air getting to the motor is a plus.

Your arguments against using a snorkel are based on personal preferences or beliefs.
1: don't like how they look
2: Don't typically travel in groups offroad where dust from others is an issue, or you choose not to follow a vehicle close enough where dust could be a problem.
3: you choose to avoid water crossings where a snorkel would be effective. Don't know about you but in my experience relatively calm water where a perfect bow wave can be maintained isn't always possible. And crossing rivers etc doesn't always violate Tread Lightly principles. There are many roads here in Utah that cross rivers/streams as the designated route. So please don't imply that anyone that encounters water crossing is being irresponsible and not following tread lightly principles.
4: you do not believe in any benefit of cooler air getting to the motor by raising the intake location.

I don't have a problem at all with your choices or your preferences. That's entirely up to you. But there is factual data that supports the benefit of a snorkel in each of those situations besides a like or dislike of how they look. I too have been wheeling Land Cruisers for 30 years (not just daily driving them ) If you ever venture into Utah you're welcome to join me on a trip. I'm sure we could both enjoy it.

It's all good. We all do what works for us. And I have the exact same sentiments. If I'm ever out your way, I will look you up. Thanks. And the same for you if you ever make it out west.