New Owner Hilux Surf 2L-TII Questions (3 Viewers)

[kw90surf]

Hi all,

New to the forums, I've read lots but just purchased my truck so I figured I'd make an account. It's a very clean 1990 Toyota Hilux Surf SSR Limited, with the 2L-TII mechanically injected diesel and a 5 speed (and yes, I know all about the head issues!). The truck has 122,000 km on it, and the head and front end of the engine just replaced. The previous owner also advanced the timing a bit to make it run cooler he said. The head was ordered from New Zealand apparently, but I am unsure if it is an OEM Toyota replacement 2L-TII head, a 3L head, or an aftermarket redesign. Does anyone have any idea what it would most likely be, coming out of New Zealand? Are there any markings on it that would give me any indication?

In any case, the truck runs great, and I am currently driving it across Canada from Saskatchewan to Nova Scotia (about 4300km) . The temp gauge stays still and it's averaged 32 mpg thus far. We've been sticking to 100km/h and downshifting for the big hills.

I've read lots about the 2L-TE, but have not seen very much about it's mechanically-injected counterpart, the 2L-TII. Am I correct in saying they are the same, minus the pump? I've read GTSSportCoupe's guide on improving the 2L-TE and will be doing many of those modifications to this rig when I get it home.

First thing, the glow plug light only stays on for about a second and a half before going out, making the truck a bit hard to start when cold. I'm thinking this is the glow plug relay, are the glow plug relays for the 2L-TE and 2L-TII the same? Because I see two listed on eBay, one for the 2H, 2L, and 2L-T, and then one for the 2L-TE and 3L, and they look completely different.

Second, I know the 2L-TE has a boost sensor, which will add fuel when it sees more boost, but does the 2L-TII have a way of doing this or will I immediately start leaning it out when I introduce more air? It's said that ~12psi is what's safe to run on the 2L-TE, so would this be about the same on the 2L-TII? I know that I don't see much smoke at all out the tailpipe of this thing.

Thirdly, and lastly for now, the clutch pedal on this thing is sooooft, appears the slave cylinder leaking and on its way out the door. We will need to do something about it before we hit Ottawa as it's getting hard to change gear. Can anyone confirm if the slave cylinder for the Surf would be the same as any other North American spec 4Runner with the R150F?

I'm absolutely loving this truck and plan to add a pyrometer, aftermarket temp gauge, boost gauge, up the boost a pound or two, 2.5" straight pipe, and block off the EGR and PCV when we get home. I may also do a snorkel and Evan's Waterless coolant, if funds permit. Has anyone had experience with the stuff?

Any help or info at all would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

 

[duncanrm]

I wouldnt trust the Surf temp gauge.. they were rigged by Toyota to remain locked at one point and show the engine running quite well and to mask the variations in temperature until it gets really hot (and often too late).. Your first job should absolutely be to either mod the temp gauge to remove this Toyota hack or fit something like a TM2 Engine Watchdog..

Additionally.. if you haven't already checked.. the Steering Relay Rods in the Surfs were recalled.. they are prone to fracture, people have died over this defect. I know because I lost steering at 60kph with one of my kids in the car when the steering relay rod failed.. I hadnt heard about the recall.

One of the many recall notices on the Relay Rod (hit google for many more pages and details):
http://www.transport.nt.gov.au/__da...-Toyota-Surf-Recall-Notification-Jan-2013.pdf

Surf Temp Gauge Mod:
http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/techsite/tempgauge.htm

 

[kw90surf]

Thanks for your reply. I will be installing a temp gauge and EGT gauge as likely two of my first mods. Judging by the pictures of the gauges in that thread, I've seen 100 degrees once or twice on some of the big hills. I will check to see if my local Toyota dealer will honour that recall with this being a JDM vehicle, however I doubt it. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[duncanrm]

I do know that Toyota Australia honoured the recall on many vehicles in this country... good luck with it.

 

[kw90surf]

Update - a North American market V6 4Runner slave cylinder does not fit a Hilux Surf. It was backwards and the bleeder screw was on the wrong side. We had to mount it upside down with a shorter bleeder screw, with 8 washers acting as spacers and take one of the bell housing bolts out, if anyone ever needs to know.

While the glow plugs still aren't cycling, it's only about 17 degrees Celsius and the truck is very hard to start. It wouldn't even kick until about 12-13 cycles of the key (2 seconds of glow each) and once it did start it wouldn't take a rev. Eventually, after about 15 seconds it came around. Felt like a bit of fuel starvation maybe? Any ideas? Could this be linked at all to the timing being advanced?

Any other info about my questions above would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Hi all,

New to the forums, I've read lots but just purchased my truck so I figured I'd make an account. It's a very clean 1990 Toyota Hilux Surf SSR Limited, with the 2L-TII mechanically injected diesel and a 5 speed (and yes, I know all about the head issues!). The truck has 122,000 km on it, and the head and front end of the engine just replaced. The previous owner also advanced the timing a bit to make it run cooler he said. The head was ordered from New Zealand apparently, but I am unsure if it is an OEM Toyota replacement 2L-TII head, a 3L head, or an aftermarket redesign. Does anyone have any idea what it would most likely be, coming out of New Zealand? Are there any markings on it that would give me any indication?

In any case, the truck runs great, and I am currently driving it across Canada from Saskatchewan to Nova Scotia (about 4300km) . The temp gauge stays still and it's averaged 32 mpg thus far. We've been sticking to 100km/h and downshifting for the big hills.

I've read lots about the 2L-TE, but have not seen very much about it's mechanically-injected counterpart, the 2L-TII. Am I correct in saying they are the same, minus the pump? I've read GTSSportCoupe's guide on improving the 2L-TE and will be doing many of those modifications to this rig when I get it home.

First thing, the glow plug light only stays on for about a second and a half before going out, making the truck a bit hard to start when cold. I'm thinking this is the glow plug relay, are the glow plug relays for the 2L-TE and 2L-TII the same? Because I see two listed on eBay, one for the 2H, 2L, and 2L-T, and then one for the 2L-TE and 3L, and they look completely different.

Second, I know the 2L-TE has a boost sensor, which will add fuel when it sees more boost, but does the 2L-TII have a way of doing this or will I immediately start leaning it out when I introduce more air? It's said that ~12psi is what's safe to run on the 2L-TE, so would this be about the same on the 2L-TII? I know that I don't see much smoke at all out the tailpipe of this thing.

Thirdly, and lastly for now, the clutch pedal on this thing is sooooft, appears the slave cylinder leaking and on its way out the door. We will need to do something about it before we hit Ottawa as it's getting hard to change gear. Can anyone confirm if the slave cylinder for the Surf would be the same as any other North American spec 4Runner with the R150F?

I'm absolutely loving this truck and plan to add a pyrometer, aftermarket temp gauge, boost gauge, up the boost a pound or two, 2.5" straight pipe, and block off the EGR and PCV when we get home. I may also do a snorkel and Evan's Waterless coolant, if funds permit. Has anyone had experience with the stuff?

Any help or info at all would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!

Update - a North American market V6 4Runner slave cylinder does not fit a Hilux Surf. It was backwards and the bleeder screw was on the wrong side. We had to mount it upside down with a shorter bleeder screw, with 8 washers acting as spacers and take one of the bell housing bolts out, if anyone ever needs to know.

While the glow plugs still aren't cycling, it's only about 17 degrees Celsius and the truck is very hard to start. It wouldn't even kick until about 12-13 cycles of the key (2 seconds of glow each) and once it did start it wouldn't take a rev. Eventually, after about 15 seconds it came around. Felt like a bit of fuel starvation maybe? Any ideas? Could this be linked at all to the timing being advanced?

Any other info about my questions above would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

Sounds like a great buy! Congratulations!! That is some great fuel economy. Probably the best I've heard about from a 2LT of any variation.

Definitely do the temperature gauge modification mentioned above! You need to know where you are at.

It's probably not the glow relay that is the problem with your glow system. The automatic timer on these rigs always runs too short. Many people just replace it with a manual switch. However, it sounds like your timer is not working at all (seems like it thinks the engine is hot when it's actually cold). Check to see if there is a temperature sensor under the intake manifold. If there is, make sure it's plugged in. On the 2LTE this is used to compute glow time...I'm not sure how the glow system on the 2LT-II works though, but worth a check. Also, take the glow rail off, and measure all your glow plugs with an ohm-meter to make sure they are ok (should be very low resistance). Finally, you can check that about 11V is making it to each glow plug (with the glow rail back on) using a volt-meter when someone turns the key. If you need new glow plugs, buy the Bosch Duraterm ones (there is a seller out of the UK on ebay). I've tried a few different glow plugs now, and the Bosch ones are excellent.

I think the 2LT-II has a boost compensator on top of the injection pump that controls fuel. It'll probably add more fuel if you add more boost, so be careful. Running lean on a diesel is fine, as it will run cooler this way, but you don't want to run richer. Rich on a diesel means more heat and can mean less efficiency. Not seeing smoke is a good indicator that things are fine. But ultimately a pyrometer gauge will tell you whats up.

I use this website http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/ to cross reference parts to north american vehicles. Or just looking up part numbers for that matter. You can use it to look up your glow plug OEM part numbers too. This will help you buy the right aftermarket ones. I'm pretty certain that the 2LTE and 2LT-II glow plugs are the same, as they share the same head design. The earlier 2LT has a completely different head design (a rocker cam design instead of shim over bucket).

The advanced timing should help your truck start easier; might be part of the reason you're getting better economy too. I advanced mine at one point and it made a huge difference.

Does your truck start really smokey/rough when it is hard to start? If so it's probably not a fuel problem, but a glow problem. That said, have you changed the fuel filter in a while? Also look for diesel leaks around the injectors and injection pump. If there is a leak, it also means air could be getting in.

There is a guy in Saskatchewan who is on this forum and the surf forums. He is very experienced with surf stuff and is worth chatting with about surf specific stuff. https://forum.ih8mud.com/members/raboyto2.30972/

Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
Nick

 

[kw90surf]

Sounds like a great buy! Congratulations!! That is some great fuel economy. Probably the best I've heard about from a 2LT of any variation.

Definitely do the temperature gauge modification mentioned above! You need to know where you are at.

It's probably not the glow relay that is the problem with your glow system. The automatic timer on these rigs always runs too short. Many people just replace it with a manual switch. However, it sounds like your timer is not working at all (seems like it thinks the engine is hot when it's actually cold). Check to see if there is a temperature sensor under the intake manifold. If there is, make sure it's plugged in. On the 2LTE this is used to compute glow time...I'm not sure how the glow system on the 2LT-II works though, but worth a check. Also, take the glow rail off, and measure all your glow plugs with an ohm-meter to make sure they are ok (should be very low resistance). Finally, you can check that about 11V is making it to each glow plug (with the glow rail back on) using a volt-meter when someone turns the key. If you need new glow plugs, buy the Bosch Duraterm ones (there is a seller out of the UK on ebay). I've tried a few different glow plugs now, and the Bosch ones are excellent.

I think the 2LT-II has a boost compensator on top of the injection pump that controls fuel. It'll probably add more fuel if you add more boost, so be careful. Running lean on a diesel is fine, as it will run cooler this way, but you don't want to run richer. Rich on a diesel means more heat and can mean less efficiency. Not seeing smoke is a good indicator that things are fine. But ultimately a pyrometer gauge will tell you whats up.

I use this website http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/ to cross reference parts to north american vehicles. Or just looking up part numbers for that matter. You can use it to look up your glow plug OEM part numbers too. This will help you buy the right aftermarket ones. I'm pretty certain that the 2LTE and 2LT-II glow plugs are the same, as they share the same head design. The earlier 2LT has a completely different head design (a rocker cam design instead of shim over bucket).

The advanced timing should help your truck start easier; might be part of the reason you're getting better economy too. I advanced mine at one point and it made a huge difference.

Does your truck start really smokey/rough when it is hard to start? If so it's probably not a fuel problem, but a glow problem. That said, have you changed the fuel filter in a while? Also look for diesel leaks around the injectors and injection pump. If there is a leak, it also means air could be getting in.

There is a guy in Saskatchewan who is on this forum and the surf forums. He is very experienced with surf stuff and is worth chatting with about surf specific stuff. https://forum.ih8mud.com/members/raboyto2.30972/

Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
Nick

GTSSportCoupe, thanks for your reply and all the great info! Funny enough, it was your thread that opened my mind up to the possibility of a 2L-T series powered truck, as opposed to ruling them all out in favour of the 1KZ. Just so happened the perfect truck came up at the perfect time and it was a 2L-T. I will check the things you mentioned and post an update when I have. I leave for school in 2 weeks and will be bringing the truck with me, so I need to get a few things done to it before I leave for some peace of mind when driving on the highway. I figure I'll start with some good gauges, exhaust, Evan's coolant and EGR block-off.

Here is the Surf (I have since replaced the front bumper):

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Right on man! Good luck with yours. 2LT can certainly be a fine engine when treated correctly. You have the best version of the motor too! Some may say I'm crazy, but I actually like the engine. If I were to do it all over again, the first things I'd do would be a complete cooling system check, (clutch fan, rad, hoses, thermostat, etc.), fix any problems there, and then go to the Evans coolant. This is what will prevent any head problems. Everything else is great for sure, but can be done as time and money allow.

 

[kw90surf]

Well, that hard-start issue has reared its head again. In fact, now it's more of a no-start issue. It's about 20 degrees Celsius, went out to start up the truck and it turned over great, then kicked like it was going to start but didn't. It continued to do this as I tried again and again, kicking but never making it to idle. Very smokey while it was doing this. I checked the glow plug relay under the hood and it is fried, broken and cracked. Obviously not working. But, now the truck won't even kick at all. At this temperature, would a glow issue cause it to barely kick and not start?

I will be ordering a relay now.

Thanks

 

[kw90surf]

Edit* - the glow plug FUSE is fried. Hopefully I can get one of those locally. Man, the old one is brittle, and I broke the plastic housing attempting to get it out. Does not want to come out of there. Plugged in the block heater, I'll see if that lets me start it.

 

[IanB]

At 20C it should start with no glow plugs, hope you get it sorted.

 

[kw90surf]

Update - seems the Surf is not getting fuel. Is there a fuel cutoff solenoid somewhere? If so, any fuses for it? Is the fuel pump in the tank? Where would the fuse for that be? Just trying to figure out what's causing it to starve for fuel. I plan to post this on hiluxsurf.co.uk and toyotasurf.asn.au but my accounts aren't activating for some reason. But, in the meantime, if anyone knows about any of these things it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[IanB]

What makes you think it's not getting fuel? You said before it was very smokey when trying to start, that sounds like it's getting fuel to me. I think you can crack each of the injectors while cranking and see if you have fuel at the injector, and bleed the injectors that way as well.

 

[kw90surf]

Well, after a short while of it kicking and smoking while trying to start it, it stopped kicking altogether, even after I plugged the block heater in for 45 minutes. I just took the fuel line from the filter to the pump off and pumped the plunger on top of the housing for almost a minute and nothing came out. Thoughts?

Maybe the filter itself is clogged? Is it just the injector pump that pumps fuel for these rigs? Or is there a fuel pump in-line or in the tank?

Also - it appears the 2L-TII has a boost sensor, same as the 2L-TE:

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Can you provide a picture of the entire engine? And a picture of the top or side of the injection pump? It sounds to me like you may have a 2LTE in there, not a 2LT-II. Or maybe a previous owner made a hybrid engine? A boost sensor would only be used with the 2LTE.

The only reason you would not be getting diesel at the filter is if your tank is empty or there is a hole/disconnect in the line. I did run out once (my tank is empty when the gauge is at 1/8th as I found out the hard way). After adding some fuel with a jerry can, it took minutes of pumping the primer to get fuel back into the pump.

On the 2LTE engine, there is no in tank pump. The injection pump is responsible for moving the fuel. I'm pretty sure the 2LT-II is the same.

With regard to your glow system, make sure someone did not accidentally put the wiring together wrong. I did once and it fried that same fuse. There are insulation spacers on a stud for the wire to glow rail on the intake manifold. And under the intake manifold is a glow resistor. Both need to be put together right or you will ground out your glow circuit and blow that fuse.

Again, please post a picture of your engine so we can identify it and help appropriately.

Sorry to hear of all the problems.

 

[kw90surf]

Here is the engine (I have the intake from the filter to the turbo off).

The "D-turbo" across the intake made me think 2L-TII, and that's what the previous owner had it listed as. However, it does have a fuse labeled "ECU" and a diagnostics port.

Here is the side of the injection pump:

I can see if I can grab another picture if needed. That'd be a surprise if it did end up being a 2L-TE! Would make me wonder about the history of the truck though. Maybe they changed out the intake piece when they did the head?

Thanks

 

[kw90surf]

As you may or may not be able to see from that picture, the VIN plate on the firewall also says "2L-T" as opposed to "2L-TE". BUT, I was poking around and just found a "throttle sensor". Something's fishy. New engine? The person that did the head swap out the injection pump for EFI too? Seems like it would be a lot of work...

 

[kw90surf]

Update on the no-start - I think the filter is plugged. After pumping for ~4 minutes, nothing. So, I disconnected the feel line from the tank to the filter housing and was able to extract fuel pretty quickly using a turkey baster. Plugged the end with my thumb to hold the fuel from running back down, and slid the line back on to the housing. Pressed the plunger some more and still nothing came out. If the filter was plugged would this plunger not work? I have a new filter coming in tomorrow.

Thanks

 

[kw90surf]

Derp - that's not the injection pump. Here is the injection pump:

Still new to this diesel thing

Best two pictures I could get with my phone.

Thanks

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

Thanks for the pictures, that is a 2LT-II for sure. It seems to be a version that has emissions equipment though, and maybe that is why it has a number of sensors.

I'd say get that new filter in there first thing, and see if you can get diesel back to the pump. You'll have to pump the primer a lot to get fuel through the pump and to the injectors. It takes a while. No need to crack the injectors to bleed though, as there is a fuel return line back to the pump I believe (is on the 2LTE anyhow...).

Take the opportunity to check out your glow system and make sure it is not grounded out anywhere. Also check the resistance of the plugs etc. as I suggested above.

You've probably been here, but lots of good reference info relating specifically to surfs: http://toyotasurf.asn.au/techsite/