New HE Owner - Questions (1 Viewer)

[jamgolf]

Hello everyone. New member here.

I just purchased a 2020 Heritage Edition Land Cruiser. I was considering getting a minimal 1-2" lift King 2.5 or BP-51 to:
(a) get a bit more ground clearance by installing 33-34 inch tires and
(b) improve the nose-dive on braking and general squishy nature of stock suspension.

But I read this thread and it seems Heritage Edition already has a slight lift over non-HE units. Measurements for my vehicle from ground-to-fender through the center of the wheel are ~35" front and ~37" rear. I have no intention of high-speed desert running etc. I am of the "as slow as possible, as fast as necessary" school of thought. I value ground clearance and articulation while still maintaining a relatively low CG.

Questions:
1. I am wondering if I can just install 275/70R18 (33.2" diameter) tires and gain some ground clearance while maintaining a relatively low center of gravity i.e. skip a lift altogether. Should I expect ANY rubbing at all at full articulation without a lift?

2. Will running 33+ inch tires without a lift and SPC UCAs cause any issues? i.e. Is there a need to correct geometry by replacing UCAs even if the vehicle is not lifted?

3. Does running a 33" tire require re-gearing? i.e. does the 3.3 gear ratio need to change to 3.9?

Any advice and guidance would be very much appreciated.
Thanks in advance!

 

[jamgolf]

Based on this thread the later 2020 units need regearing to get front/rear lockers (ARB or Harrop).
What are the available gearing options?
Some of Eric's (Ed Martin Toyota) builds have regeared to 4.3.
Is 3.9 or lower an option for ARB/Harrop lockers?

 

[tbisaacs]

Congrats on the purchase. 275/70/r18 is an extremely popular size for even stock 200 series. You can run this with almost no fuss. And you won't need gearing.

This may help: 200 Series Tire and Wheel Size Database

 

[jamgolf]

Thanks for the link to the Tire/Wheel DB. I don't have access to it yet, although I have requested it.
Glad to hear 275/70/r18 size is a no-fuss option. I am currently leaning toward that size.

 

[bencallaway]

Congrats on the purchase!

The absolute best advice you’ll get from anyone is to leave it alone and drive it for a while. Get to know the vehicle as it was designed before you make any changes.

 

[TeCKis300]

Congratulations and welcome to the boards

1) 33.2" overall diameter is an easy fit. Minimal if any rubbing, which will come down to specific tire choice/tread pattern. You may want a minimal wheel spacer (1") with this size tire to correct suspension geometry for scrub radius.

2) No need for UCAs without suspension lift. Generally only necessary above a 2" lift to correct for caster. If UCAs are not necessary for alignment, I'd recommend avoiding them as they cause certain annoyances and long term durability issues (bushing/joints wear/squeak)

3) 33s don't require regearing. Especially not a later gen 200-series with an 8-speed transmission. Low end gearing is on par with a 6-speed re-geared with 4.88s. If you do haul a lot, may want to re-gear with 3.9s from a 6-speed LC200 to correct more for shift points and freeway speed gearing.

 

[jamgolf]

@bencallaway That is solid advice. I can't argue with that

I am not too much of a tinkerer and usually like to get things right, off the bat. I don't want an over-landing machine, or desert running machine, or a rock crawler etc. So, I have no intention to build the rig up the wazoo. I just want to get it to a point where it fits my likes/needs and that would be the end of my *build*.

 

[jamgolf]

@TeCKis300 thanks for sharing your thoughts on 33.2" tires and UCAs.
If I get lockers I'll have to regear and I'll probably stick to 3.9 gear ratio.
But its good to know there is no *need* to regear with +1" or +2" tires.

 

[Dre01SS]

I've been doing a lot of reading through various threads and my understanding is that either a 275/70/18 or 285/65/18 will fit a stock suspension 200 with little to no rubbing issues. I'm personally leaning towards the former for my recently acquired 2017.

As for the lift, which I'm also procuring, you can get the extra height without going all-in with a BP51/Icon or similar setup. Given the type of trails and general usage I foresee, the standard OME or Iron Man setup provides the height and supports the nose dive you mention at much lower cost than the other systems, even with the UCAs included. I also know myself and doubt I would be frequently adjusting compression/rebound settings, therefore I'd be using only a fraction of the system's potential.

Now I'm researching what the optimal tire setup would be with the lift, and if the 275/70/18 is the best choice given the lift will be part of the build sooner rather than later, and what can fit without getting into drastic cutting/forming of the liner.

 

[Avalon911]

Congrats and best wishes. I suggest you start with getting the tires you mentioned and get the Toyota OEM front coil spacers to better level the vehicle. These two easy changes are great improvements without much compromise on drivability. Might be just what you are looking for. Just my .02.

 

[Madtiger]

I would make sure CRAWL not being capable enough before ordering lockers....

 

[jamgolf]

No doubt the CRAWL control is very capable. It works. If I am ever stuck in the sand, it will be the goto tool.

I just like the capability of lockers. There is very little drama when lockers are engaged, which I (and more importantly my wife) prefer. "As slow as possible, as fast as necessary" is the way I like to go. And to keep my wife's anxiety at bay, lockers just go a long way. I feel CRAWL can be herky-jerky with all the system chattering noises just cause anxiety level spikes

Some people get rooftop tents, some get winches and some get fridges. Let's just say lockers are what completes the build for me
Whether I get them now or later. I will get them eventually.

 

[TeCKis300]

I normally don't recommend this for non-HE models without also doing a minor lift to the rear. Since the HE already has longer rear springs and a bit more stink-bug going on....

Look into OEM front shock spacer. They'll lift the nose just under 1" without effecting ride (unfortunately does nothing for brake dive short of getting stiffer aftermarket springs). More interesting is that they increase front suspension travel (more droop) by about the same amount. More suspension travel is huge for traction in moguls (RTI!), clearance, more compression travel on whoops, etc. Makes the front suspension travel match the rear at 10".

That combined with 33-34" tires will make an already formidable rig, unstoppable. Probably won't even need ATRAC

Most of us don't need a locker, but need maybe isn't the question?

 

[jamgolf]

@TeCKis300 @Avalon911
That is excellent advice and great food for thought.

To provide some context, I have owned Land Rover LR4 for 10 years straight (2010 and 2016 models). In parallel at different points in time I have also owned A 4Runner TRD Pro and a Jeep Rubicon on 37” with coil overs. I’ve done many of the Colorado trails in them. They have their own strengths. But right after taking delivery of my Land Cruiser I went straight to a trail near Silverton, with just 60 miles on the odometer. The effortless way that this Land Cruiser just climbed up the trail really impressed me. It was a green trail. I did not air down, or put it in low gear for ascent, or lock the center diff. It just climbed up in the most plush and effortless way. Like a mountain goat. I was totally impressed. The articulation is also much better than I expected. No tire slippage whatsoever. Total control at all times.

With a slight gain in ground clearance, I think this vehicle is as @TeCKis300 said “unstoppable” for all but the most extreme purposes.

 

[Madtiger]

Sliders? That would be my 2nd mod after tires.

 

[jamgolf]

Sliders are actually on the top of the list but neither Slee nor Budbuilt are in stock, unfortunately.

 

[sleeoffroad]

FWIW, we just got another batch in. They just have to be checked in, hardware kits made and then they will show in stock on the site.

 

[jamgolf]

@sleeoffroad
Great. I will drop by the store to pick them up.

 

[jamgolf]

Getting the Slee slider-steps installed next week. Will make my wife happy.

Then on to tries, lift, and lockers project ...
I've read mostly positive experiences with (properly configured) King 2.5 kit. BP-51 seems a bit of a mixed bag where most owners are happy but some have reported noise and some have even switched away to King/Fox etc. from BP-51. I do have experience with King coil-overs a few years ago on a Jeep JK. They improved that Jeep's ride considerably. But they were quite chattery/noisy. I've been told that was an installer issue. So, I think installation is definitely part of the equation. With BP-51 I can go to Slee and get installation from an experienced installer. With King, I'd have to find someone reputable. I really thought about doing a front spacer and no lift, but I feel the vehicle could benefit from better on-road manners and less nose-dive, which will not be addressed by a OEM spacer alone.

 

[TeCKis300]

That's quite a history of SUVs and dose of mods you've had! Pretty aggressive mods at that.

Are you looking to build more modestly with this one? Even mild, I'd encourage you to go as large of a tire as you can. It's the best lift and suspension you can do, and the 200-series wears them with very little compromise.

Throwing this out there but looks like Bilsteins got a newly released suspension kit out - Bilstein 6112/5160 Installed