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New belts, now funny whine - help?

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by IdahoDoug, Sep 23, 2003.

  1. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

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    Last week, I installed all three new belts on our '93 80. These were Toyota belts, and the alternator/PS belts were matched. I tensioned them by hand.

    Yesterday I drove it for the first time and noticed a whine that follows engine RPMs. It sounds like the sound of a water pump going out, or similar small bearing. The belts feel a tad looser than when I put them on, and the two little idler pulleys that push against the inside of the belts between the alternator and crank pulley on the left side of the engine don't seem to be pushing with any gusto. Do those move or are they adjustable? They seem to simply be there to prevent any belt wobble as opposed to actual tension - correct? To my eye, they seem solidly mounted and NOT adjustable - correct?

    At any rate, I'm looking for guidelines for how much tension to put on them when I adjust them. Someone once mentioned here they adjust them until they can no longer twist the belt more than either 90 or 180 degrees (can't remember now) by hand. I definitely did not put too much tension on them initially, so ruling out any accessory bearing damage in a week's time. I suspect they're too loose.

    What say ye?

    IdahoDoug
     
  2. cruiserman

    cruiserman

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    Doug, The pulley of which you write is solidly mounted to the block. I just mounted mine the other day :). When replacing belts, I look for about 1/2" of deflection on the long belt run, and I check the tension again after driving the rig. Tighten them a bit and see what happens.
     
  3. 76FJ40

    76FJ40 Old Fart SILVER Star

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    Check to ensure that the belts pass on the correct side of the idleers. It's very common for the belts to be installed incorrectly.
     
  4. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

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    The belts pass on the outside of the idlers, meaning the belt goes around them and the point of contact is the inner belt against the outer idler. The narrow tapered part of the belt touches the idler. Hope that's clear. I'm quite certain that's the way they've always been.

    IdahoDoug
     
  5. Pitbull

    Pitbull

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    Doug you ever find out what was causing the noise? I have the same whine after changing belts. My machanic has some of the head sets that isolate noise and he say it is coming from the idler pulley so we have ordered a new pulley to see if that fixes it. Would like to know if you ever found a fix. Thanks
     
  6. sjcruiser

    sjcruiser

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    Doug mentioned in one of the post that his belts were loosen after a break-in period (in a week or so). If you did not have the whine before it's pretty much the culprit.

    I changed mine after Doug did his. Mine has been purring since (used to have occasional squeaks at idle - had thought it was the alternator pulley)

    Regards,
    Frank.
     
  7. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    IIRC, Doug determined his PS pump was noisy and he bled the system to correct.

    Did you use OEM belts or cogged belts? Cogged belts make a racket.
     
  8. semlin

    semlin discouraged user

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    Pitbull, my mechanic said exactly the same thing. It was the aftermarket belts he fitted. Are yours oem? They should say "mitsubishi" on the side if they are.
     
  9. Landpimp

    Landpimp

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    [quote author=Pitbull link=board=2;threadid=5587;start=msg68035#msg68035 date=1069803022]
    Doug you ever find out what was causing the noise? I have the same whine after changing belts. My machanic has some of the head sets that isolate noise and he say it is coming from the idler pulley so we have ordered a new pulley to see if that fixes it. Would like to know if you ever found a fix. Thanks
    [/quote]

    if your bearing is bad in the idler pulley, you can take the pulley off, pop the bearing out, take it to the local bearing house and get a new one for $10 vrs $50 for a new set up from the dealer.

    I have a head set as well.......it's a piece of hose, stick(mine comes out the other side with little resistance) one end in ear.......point the other end at whatever you want........listen ;) the kind of stethascope you put in both ears is a great way to rip your ears off when(and it will) gets chought in the fan or something.......not that I would know ;)

    John H
     
  10. Koffer

    Koffer

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    I had the same thing on my 96 and it sounded like the idler pulley for the alt belts was crapping out but it had a new idler . I changed the belts with new ones and all is fine . :D The belts on it were cogged on the inside (where they ran agianst the idler ) but the new ones are smooth on the inside and cogged on the outside.
    The dealer i got it from had put 2 new idlers on and still did it so they gave up and sold it to me cheaper as they thought it needed a water pump . Dumb asses :doh: :flipoff2:
     
  11. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

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    Sorry I thought I'd updated this. I checked the belts after about a week and was surprised how much looser they'd gotten since I initially tightened them. Tightened them and indeed they shut right up. The PS pump was coincidentally also the subject of another thread as I refreshed the PS fluid the same day, and it also made a noise until I properly rebled it. Now back to normal absolutely silent idle purr....

    DougM
     
  12. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    Pimp,

    The 1FZ idler, 16603-66010, is constructed in a manner which would require destroying it to get it apart(at least that is what it looks like to me, I have one in front of me at the moment), have you actually taken on of these apart yourself?

    D-
     
  13. Pitbull

    Pitbull

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    Thanks for the information. I installed gate cogged belts. That is when the noise started. After a couple of months the noise is less but still a whine. Next time I change belts I will go back to OEM.
     
  14. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    Pit,
    I recommend that you remove the Gates belts and replace with OEM. Noise is only one of the problems the Gates belts cause.
    -B-
     
  15. Pitbull

    Pitbull

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    [quote author=Beowulf link=board=2;threadid=5587;start=msg68769#msg68769 date=1069998301]
    Pit,
    I recommend that you remove the Gates belts and replace with OEM. Noise is only one of the problems the Gates belts cause.
    -B-

    [/quote]

    What problems do the cause, other than noise?
     
  16. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    Pit,
    Somehow I knew you were going to ask me that question. As I recall, there were reports on the international list of other problems with the Gates belts. Someone measured the width and depth and they didn't properly fit the V-grooves. This was suspected of causing premature bearing problems with something... A/C compressor, PS pump, or tensioner. I don't remember the details; only that there was a problem.

    YMMV but for the price of new genuine Toyota matched belts vs the price of the other bits and pieces it's not worth the risk in my opinion.

    -B-
     
  17. Pitbull

    Pitbull

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    [quote author=Beowulf link=board=2;threadid=5587;start=msg68837#msg68837 date=1070041419]
    Pit,
    Somehow I knew you were going to ask me that question. As I recall, there were reports on the international list of other problems with the Gates belts. Someone measured the width and depth and they didn't properly fit the V-grooves. This was suspected of causing premature bearing problems with something... A/C compressor, PS pump, or tensioner. I don't remember the details; only that there was a problem.

    YMMV but for the price of new genuine Toyota matched belts vs the price of the other bits and pieces it's not worth the risk in my opinion.

    -B-
    [/quote]

    Thanks, I'll change them and keep the gates as a spare set.
     
  18. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

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    Also, remember that the noise is accompanied by vibration the little teeth cause. Adding vibration to a bearing, however minor, increases wear.

    DougM
     
  19. willie7

    willie7

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    For what it is worth, watch the belt tension. After tightening belt to quite noise, I later discovered the A/C pully bearing shot. Expensive price to pay for a little noise.
     
  20. DanKunz

    DanKunz SILVER Star

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    I had Gates on when I git my rig...they suck.

    Killed my PS pump.

    OEM fixed it all (PS pump had to be swapped..ouchie)