need dealer service info -- door panel (1 Viewer)

[a990dna]

I've had my new LC back at the dealer to correct an annoying rattle inside the interior door panel... on the driver side, near the top, before it curves toward the window. At first I thought it might be something coming loose or a rod vibrating against a part inside the door.. applying pressure on the panel or window didn't stop the rattle.

They claim it's a door panel "clearance" issue...

To correct the problem the dealer must have affixed some sort of adhesive or double-stick tape to the panel and reinstalled it. Yes, the rattle went away for a few days but is back again due to poor tack in the adhesive.

Now it seems worse because they disassembled the damn thing.

It appears they tried to do a quick and dirty job... I called the SM and told him to order a new panel and I want it fixed right. He sounded nervous saying "this isn't good because it's coming back for the same problem twice." He was compliant and ordered the panel, in addition to some other parts they screwed up while fixing a few other minor annoyances.. I'll spare you the details.

I've read all the posts how to remove the panels, however I need to know what's between the panel and the door, if anything? They claim the factory places foam between there..

Any insight will be appreciated.

 

[rph74]

I have not taken the door panel apart on my LC, but I have on many other cars and they've all been the same. On my other cars, they have all just been one big piece that is fastened by several plastic snap fasteners. The piece just clips on to the door, where the window comes out, and several small fasteners hold the rest in place. I have never seen adhesive used to keep a door panel in place.

Does the door panel feel loose at all at the top part where the curve is?

Sounds to me that you are correct in thinking that the dealer tried to do a quick cheap fix. I would have probably tried the same thing as a DIY, but I wouldn't find that acceptable on a new rig.

 

[100 TD]

........in addition to some other parts they screwed up while fixing a few other minor annoyances.. I'll spare you the details.

Do give us the details of the other problems, everybody needs to know what is happening out there, and to what part and why!

 

[fl4031003]

Door Panel

I had an issue with my left rear door panel. I noticed that the dealership removed the window sticker with a sharp blade and scratched the glass. I had them replace the glass but once the door panel was removed it caused a sqeak. I went back to the dealership twice but the condition always returned. I removed the panel myself and found that the panel has direct contact with the metal door on the upper part of the panel. I had some factory looking foam placed it along the top and have never had a problem since.

 

[Tinkerer]

Door and other interior trim panels, are prone to clip breakage and panel clip mount breakage, when they are removed. Sometimes clips break off and drop into inaccessible areas. Foam anti-S&R (Squeak & Rattle) measures get moved, damaged, or fall off too. Other parts get moved around, have their own anti-S&R measures compromised too.

A mechanic, encountering these problems, will frequently try to hastily rig things well enough to slap it all back together in a hurry, leaving the assy with squeaks & rattles. Especially if he is penalized for broken panel clip mounts etc. that require an entire new panel (!) to correct.

It is pretty likely, anytime an interior trim panel like a door panel is removed, that you will end up with rattles etc.

Damage, including things such as the scratched door glass, is encouraged by the flat rate pay system that encourages mechanics to work in haste.

(See all the previous postings (hehe) on the modern Automotive Service Industry employee pay, incentive, and work management system that encourages such behavior.)

Yet one more reason why we like to have fewer defects from the factory, to begin with.

Good luck.

 

[a990dna]

I have not taken the door panel apart on my LC, but I have on many other cars and they've all been the same. On my other cars, they have all just been one big piece that is fastened by several plastic snap fasteners. The piece just clips on to the door, where the window comes out, and several small fasteners hold the rest in place. I have never seen adhesive used to keep a door panel in place.

Does the door panel feel loose at all at the top part where the curve is?

Sounds to me that you are correct in thinking that the dealer tried to do a quick cheap fix. I would have probably tried the same thing as a DIY, but I wouldn't find that acceptable on a new rig.

Now it does. I was trying to locate the rattle before taking it in and I couldn't find any abnormal clearance issues. In fact it appeared fairly solid and that's why I thought it could be a fastener coming loose or the rod that connects the latches may be vibrating against the frame.

Now there's a gap between the panel (top and middle) and the sheetmetal... and makes all kind of noises when I rest my arm on the door. They must have used adhesive, it gets worse in the heat.

They are going to great lengths NOW to correct the situation.. it just took due diligence on my part to make it happen.

Which brings me to the next post...

 

[a990dna]

Do give us the details of the other problems, everybody needs to know what is happening out there, and to what part and why!

First, I have 3,500 miles on the LC. I love this vehicle! ... probably the best driving vehicle I've ever owned. I have zero complaints. I realize there will always be some new vehicle issues and I'm extremely anal about certain things... especially rattles. I take after my dad.

Anyway, here are the things that I allowed to add up before taking it in for my first service:

This all started after 1K miles...

1. First start (cold) idle stays at 1,500 rpm way too long.. 3-4 minutes. I don't enjoy slipping an automatic into gear at that rpm.

2. The steering wheel hub at the wheel squealed when cold... sounded like my late grandfather's '65 Chevy Impala.

3. The driver side panel started rattling constantly. The speaker booming also made it rattle.

4. The driver side window doesn't track well in the channel (canted) on its way up, when its seating in at full up postion its not level .. but does ultimately push up into the top channel at full stroke. I thought this may be contributing to the rattle.

5. The infamous buzzing noise that comes from underneath the hood at first start.. on cold mornings. It goes way eventually.

6. The rear seats rattle when unoccupied. The head rests need a re-design due to excessive clearance and poor latches in there fixed position.

That's it. But, keep in mind this vehicle was in their inventory for 8 months.. sitting in a parking structure. The mechanic said sitting around could have caused a few of these abnormalities. Mostly due to being moved around for 8 months.. plus being locked up tight during the summer months doesn't help the interior.

I did receive some flack from the service manager upon taking it in for these things. I have the Platinum Warrantee. He didn't want to pay for a rental.. said something about the vehicle need to be disabled. I asked him: Logically, how will you be able to repeat these symptoms due to the cold morning, first start issue? doesn't make sense to me.

I told him it needs to stay overnight... or I can have it towed in if that's what it takes to get a rental.

He finally complied.

A few days after picking it up I noticed the quick and dirty fixes:

1. the panel adhesive thing.

2. the rubber molding on the window rail near the tweeter was hosed up, like they tried to pry it out to make the window seat better.

3. they did say they wanted to replace the window regulator.

4. the plastic housing under the steering wheel hub was scratched up.. poor workmanship. The steering wheel squeal is fixed now.


On order for replacement:
1. regulator.
2. window rail and molding (rework).
3. door panel (rework).
4. housing under the steering wheel hub (rework).

I told the SM they need to fix and install these parts like it was on the assembly line in Japan. I won't accept anything less.

 

[Tinkerer]

Does anyone know if the 100 series build location changed between 1998 and 2006?

I heard later 100 series vehicles were not being built in the same factory as the earlier units.

a990dna, I do not think that the vehicle being in storage for 8 months would cause the interior rattles & squeaks - IF all was built according to specifications. Good OEMs like Toyota go to great lengths to design and build for worst-case expected conditions (excluding abuse), and this applies to the interior also. They assume worst-case thermal cycling such as encountered by the vehicle sitting for extended periods in hot sun / cool night / repeat, and they spec components to handle this, and test extensively to make sure. They also test finished vehicles to look at the assemblies' behavior and make improvements where necessary.

However, mis-build conditions arising at the assembly plant, or defective components, may cause problems. Such things occasionally happen, even with Toyota.

My sympathies with your stealership service dept experience - I've been there many times with similar hassles and heard mucho similer BS from service dept people. Sounds like you are on the right track by staying on them to fix things despite the BS being emitted by service mgr. If you are not happy, stay on them to fix the rattles etc. until you are fully satisfied, and don't let them brush you off with BS like "a few squeaks and rattles are normal" etc. - they are NOT normal or OK in a new vehicle of the caliber and cost of a LC! Toyota acknowledges intererior squeaks and rattles as defects, and the stealer needs to be reminded of this.

 

[spressomon]

I've had my new LC back at the dealer to correct an annoying rattle inside the interior door panel... on the driver side, near the top, before it curves toward the window. At first I thought it might be something coming loose or a rod vibrating against a part inside the door.. applying pressure on the panel or window didn't stop the rattle.

They claim it's a door panel "clearance" issue...

To correct the problem the dealer must have affixed some sort of adhesive or double-stick tape to the panel and reinstalled it. Yes, the rattle went away for a few days but is back again due to poor tack in the adhesive.

Now it seems worse because they disassembled the damn thing.

It appears they tried to do a quick and dirty job... I called the SM and told him to order a new panel and I want it fixed right. He sounded nervous saying "this isn't good because it's coming back for the same problem twice." He was compliant and ordered the panel, in addition to some other parts they screwed up while fixing a few other minor annoyances.. I'll spare you the details.

I've read all the posts how to remove the panels, however I need to know what's between the panel and the door, if anything? They claim the factory places foam between there..

Any insight will be appreciated.

I have a similar problem with both front door panels; It started after I had the door speakers installed along with sound dead'ning material. Mine is more of a 'creak' than a rattle. One of these days I'll probably take it apart and figure out the source...

 

[a990dna]

Well here we go, I dropped off my new LC today to get the following parts replaced... a rework from the last service visit.

1. window regulator.
2. window rail and molding (rework).
3. door panel (rework).
4. housing under the steering wheel hub (rework).

I'm disappointed in my LC thus far, its turned into a major rattle trap so I decided to press the issue on the following defects:

- Rear passenger side seat wobbling-rattling.. it appears the latch on the seat in its fixed position is not holding it down tight. They claimed the leather upholstery makes noise--yea right.

- The driver side front end sag is unacceptable. This is a major flaw... it's sagging about 3/4" now. I can feel the T-bar tension is different on right and left turns. I cranked the bolt a couple turns awhile back but it’s not leveling it out enough... probably need to crank it all the way in---I'm not doing that.

The SM said they'll need to call Toyota on the excessive driver side lean issue---it will be interesting to hear what they say about this problem.


I wonder if mine was the last 2005 to come off the assembly line.

 

[NMuzj100]

- The driver side front end sag is unacceptable. This is a major flaw... it's sagging about 3/4" now. I can feel the T-bar tension is different on right and left turns. I cranked the bolt a couple turns awhile back but it’s not leveling it out enough... probably need to crank it all the way in---I'm not doing that.

The SM said they'll need to call Toyota on the excessive driver side lean issue---it will be interesting to hear what they say about this problem.

The T-Bar will probably require reindexing rather than just adjusting.

I wonder if mine was the last 2005 to come off the assembly line.

Someone is going to get the last one. The ones made of parts earlier set aside for being out of spec or not fitting right the first time they came to the line.

I doubt it's your's though more like just a result of the rig's complexity.

# of parts + fasteners + alignment + calibration = lots of room for errors

 

[a990dna]

Thanks for the feedback... here's an update:

Service manager called and they are aiming to please... this is a combo Lexus Toyota dealer, namely Penske.

Anyway, the guy calls me to see exactly where I'm coming from.. the service tech told him they may need to put it into the body shop and install a whole new door---keep in mind this all started with a rattle. WTF?

I said no way.

He went on to say they're replacing the window, plastic keepers, the run (rubber seal), the regulator and the door panel. I said okay, it better go together the way the factory intended it to be.

Then we discussed the driver side lean... thanks to an idea I got from one of the recent threads here, I told him the factory probably indexed the T-bar wrong---just like you mentioned. Anyway, he tells me all Tundra's have a driver side lean as well.. exactly 1/2".

So far they are really trying to make this thing right... however, I'm a little disappointed my new LC has issues.

 

[jahmaka]

I have the same rattle in the door panels when the radio is on and it goes away when off both left and right.When i put some force to the panel with my knee it stops.I will be taking the panel off soon to install new specker then i will mess with it.

 

[Jim_Chow]

An entire new door is absolutely ridiculous. You'll likely have more problems. Body shops don't have the same jigs, so it's highly likely that although the door closes fine, the width of the seam (near the exterior handle) will not be the same. The complaints/problems w/ the newer LC's seem to be similar to those on new 4Runners...creaky seats, strange creaks (sometimes in the ceiling), albeit the 4runners seem to have more problems. I wonder if it's because Araco no longer makes the LC's? Anyone know about when they stopped making them? '04? '05? Does it mean it's better to get one of the earlier vehicles from a given year since factory parts aren't "leftovers?"

I don't buy the vehicle unsold on the dealer lot for 8 months argument as the cause of the creaks. Either way, you'll get expansion of parts due to heat/cold, even if it's driven everyday.

Have you looked at the FSM about exactly how the door is reassembled and compared that to what the dealer did?

It might be difficult for the dealer to get it factory-like. Reason is, a lot of this assembly stuff is technique. My wife worked in an auto-parts factory in Japan for a while. Even for stuff like gapping spark plugs, you have to insert/remove the gauge at a certain angle. There was a veteran managing the people doing this. He'd admonish the workers and make them practice on the side, have them redo everything they did, then check them all himself to ensure everything was just right. It took some time for the workers to get the technique down. There was also an article on the autoinsider recently about how toyota sends overseas factory managers to a special training facility in Japan. They interview the instructore, a painter w/ 30 yrs experience, who says the key is moving one's body in the correct way, like a dance. They spend some weeks practicing there. Stuff like this leads me to believe it's not just as simple as slapping things together at the dealership.

 

[CTapia]

I wonder if it's because Araco no longer makes the LC's? Anyone know about when they stopped making them? '04? '05? Does it mean it's better to get one of the earlier vehicles from a given year since factory parts aren't "leftovers?"

.

Jim_Chow,

Interesting info/reading on the training involved and technique. Anyhow to answer part of your question, my 04 LX has a few "Araco" decals in the engine area. I thought I read that part of the VIN number states the assembly location, cany anyone confirm? For what is worth, I don't have any squeeks or rattles.

 

[LEXUSBEN]

Jim_Chow,

Interesting info/reading on the training involved and technique. Anyhow to answer part of your question, my 04 LX has a few "Araco" decals in the engine area. I thought I read that part of the VIN number states the assembly location, cany anyone confirm? For what is worth, I don't have any squeeks or rattles.

All us l/c and lx are still built in araco plant in japan. Same place they have been built since at least the fj60 days.

ben

probably same guy that built the 60 you used to have also built the 04.

 

[DMX84]

I had my door panel off to fix a squeak and fix the loose window controllers. Once I had it off I re-bent the clip that clamps it to the top off the door. This fixed the squeak. IIRC, there was some foam to help with rattles etc. Not much to getting off the panels.
But you new problem sounds like they didn’t get the upper clips set it properly.
The window regulator sound like a major PIA. I would rather have a new door, because they are going to destroy yours replacing the regulator IMO.

This reminds me of a dealer that worked on my other car (10 years ago) he removed the panel and commenced to ripping the plastic moisture barrier out. I told the SM about the problem they just caused, and he said no problem, until they found out they didn’t sell the vapor barrier! F’n A-holes. Its hard to find people that take pride in there workmanship. Nothing duck tape couldn’t fix, right?
DMX

 

[a990dna]

Have you looked at the FSM about exactly how the door is reassembled and compared that to what the dealer did?

It might be difficult for the dealer to get it factory-like. Reason is, a lot of this assembly stuff is technique.

Jim, et al ---

I picked up my LC this morning... I couldn't believe my eyes. The window, the run (rubber molding) and the panel came out absolutely perfect. The cant in the window is gone as it runs up through the rails and seats at the top. I can't believe the quality workmanship. I had my reservations because of the complexity involved.

The service technician did an excellent job---I think his quick repair the first time may have been due to avoiding ripping the whole thing apart and not having the parts on hand. I guess I'll never know, but he redeemed himself nevertheless.

The only thing I need to get is the factory "Security Warning" sticker back on the new window.. when I mentioned it, the SM made a beeline to the parts department.


The other stuff ---

1. The rear seat wobble-rattle...
They said there is no adjustment on the latch (hook under the seat) to make the seat clamp tighter in the fixed position. If that's the case, I think if the steel loop on the floor was wrapped with something, ie. tape, shrink tube, etc., to increase the diameter a bit it may solve the problem. I will pursue on my own for a fix.

2. The driver side lean issue....
This was an interesting discussion. The SM said the lean differential is within the "tolerance" of 1/2". He must have been reading my mind because before I could get two words out, he said it's not a documented specification---LOL... he's getting to know me. He asked if I wanted to talk to the shop foreman. I said yea, let's talk.

The foreman is a young guy, the SM expressed my disatisfaction with the lean from the factory. We measured, and it's exactly 1/2" off now---but keep in mind it was 3/4" before I cranked the T-bar 2.5 turns. I explained what I did and asked why they couldn't level it out... knowing it would need an alignment and the steering wheel will most likely be off center. The SM and foreman said they won't do it unless a Toyota rep looks at it first and gives the okay, claiming it's a factory specification.

The foreman made an interesting comment: He said it has something to do with the gas tank...

They offered to set up a meeting with the rep on May 4th if I wanted to pursue the option. They said they went through the same ordeal with the Tundra's several years ago and Toyota wouldn't budge on T-bar readjustments and alignments. Anyway, I believe these guys.. they were being honest with me claiming they'll do anything to make me happy.

This was a turning point in my negative opinion about dealerships. As a result, I am sending a letter to the V.P. Longo Toyota, a Penske company, to recognize these three individuals.. the SM, the shop foreman, and most important the service technician.

A good outcome.

 

[Jim_Chow]

That's great that they fixed your door. About one side being lower than the other. Aren't the rear springs asymmetrical for that reason?

 

[a990dna]

I took my 2005 LC in again to address these ongoing issues:

1. The rear seat wobble-rattle.
Upon test drive the mechanic said I'll just have to drive with the rear seat folded down. Since there's no adjustment, the only other option is to install a new seat which will probably rattle as well.

2. The driver side lean/sag issue.
Since the last visit, the front suspension developed a intermittent low-speed knock on the front driver side. I don't if it's related to the front end lean issue; I also notice the driver side suspension appears soft and leans in more on right turns, than the passenger side does on left turns.

T-bar or shock?

Any ideas would be helpful.