Need Carb help - Pinhead? Jim C? Mark A? Anyone? (1 Viewer)

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Feb 8, 2006
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Sorry, kind of long...

Okay, here's the history. This is a 73 Aisin carb on a 71 F motor. The carb was rebuilt about 3 years ago by Mark A and ported for vacuum advance. It has been running fine since then. Vacuum at idle was always around 20-21" Hg. However, recently, the idle was a little off and it just didn't seem to be running as good as it had. So, I went through the carb adjustments in the FSM and detailed here on Mud in the FAQs (I'll post it below for those wondering). Once done, I decided to adjust the valves.

So, I went out for a test drive and wow, it runs like crap. I went back through the carb adjustments, and now I can't get my vacuum above about 17-18 at idle. I can set the idle, but it is running much rougher. The biggest problem is now I have a "hiccup" (best way to describe it) at cruising speed. Every minute or so, I get this hiccup. It is almost like it is running too lean or the main jet is partially plugged. This is only when at a constant throttle position. If I stomp on the accelerator, it runs fine.

So, what I have done is:
1. Rechecked carb settings - followed Mud directions below
2. Rechecked valve adjustments
3. Checked timing - 11* as always - I've tried adjusting it down to 7*, but no change
4. Checked for vacuum leaks with cardboard over the intake and with carb cleaner, and I can't find any leaks
5. I adjusted the throttle postioner to factory specs

So, what did I do? Why did my vacuum drop all of a sudden? Why is my idle okay (although a little rough), but I get a hiccup at a constant speed. Since it doesn't hiccup at full throttle, I'm assuming the secondary is working properly as well as the fuel pump.

Any ideas? I just put in new plugs and wires. The cap and rotor look fine, but I did sand them down a little to clean them up. This is a vaccum advance dizzy with pertronics.

One quick question regarding carb adjustments - do you need to adjust the idle mixture again after you set your final idle speed? Below directions say just to set idle down to 450 or so and then set fuel mixture then finally set idle back to spec. I didn't readjust idle mixture after setting my idle back to 600 rpms.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Carb adjustment from FAQs -
Vacuum leaks need to be fixed first. Pull the air cleaner and with the engine running, block off all airflow to the carb. Don't use your hand because it could backfire out the carb. I use a piece of cardboard that is big enough it won't get sucked in. As the engine dies, listen to the idle. If it goes up before it dies, you have a vacuum leak/leaks. If it just dies, proceed to carb adjustments.

If you have a vacuum leak/leaks, best way I know to find them is with water. Carb cleaner/Ether works but burning down you, your house, or your truck isn't fun. Just buy a cheap 1.00 spray bottle. Engine is running and warm so I highly doubt a cracked block is even possible. Mist around the engine on all the hoses and fittings. Anywhere you spray and the engine rpms drop, you have a vacuum leak. Somewhat messy but this is another one of WD-40's many uses as well.

The idle mixture screw is only for idle. If you look at a carb out of the truck, you can see a small hole below the throttle plate. It is very important you have the idle low enough that the engine is running off that hole. There is another above this one and as you increase your idle, you expose the second hole.

Your engine needs to be at operating temp.

Set your idle down all the way. Most Cruisers will allow you to lower it until the engine dies. Turn it up around 450-500 so the engine is slow but running by itself.

Make sure the choke is open completely.

Air cleaner needs to be installed. Even though it makes it harder to adjust, you need it on because it changes the air/fuel ratio.

Hook up a vacuum gage to direct vacuum. Your brake booster hose will work. (be careful not to break the plastic taking it off. Been there )

Adjust for highest vacuum at idle. 15+ inches of mercury at your altitude.
There is a plateau for max vacuum as you open up the idle mixture, and once there, I would then adjust down (tighten) to the point where the vacuum begins to fall. There is some delay in response after an adjustment, so beware. - IDave

Set idle back to spec.

Check timing.

Go through carb adjustments one more time.

Set idle

Grab a beer and let the truck cool down.

Adjust choke cold or if manual, pull until truck runs and go buy more beer. Make sure on both that the choke closed doen't completely block off air to the engine. The stops usually keep it slightly open even when fully closed or choked.

The only reason for a choke is to increase fuel until the intake manifold can warm up. At colder temps, fuel doesn't atomize. Instead it tends to condense on the sides of the intake. Once your truck warms up, this is no longer an issue. Assuming everything else is ok, it should run fine. Keep in mind how well and efficient a Cruiser's intake is designed.......2" vs. 8" to the 1 and 6 cyl doesn't help in the cold.


:cheers:
 
Last edited:
Points condition?

Dwell angle?
 
Thanks IDave, but no points. I upgraded(?) to a Pertronix.

After a little more test driving today, I get the hiccup when I give a slight throttle increase. For example, I can drive fine on a flat road at 40 mph. When I come to a slight rise and gently increase throttle to maintain speed, I get the hiccup. It will continue to hiccup unless I let off the throttle or significantly increase throttle (i.e. stomp on the throttle). Why would a slight throttle increase give me the hiccup?

Like I said before, this started after I fiddled with the carb and adjusted the valve clearances. I have a tendency to tinker with things to the point of inoperability. :bang::rolleyes: How does that saying go, if it ain't broke...

Anyone got any ideas?

Thanks! :cheers:
 
Just a thought (may be waaaay off), but have you checked your fuel filter? I had a brand new rebuilt carb on mine and it cruised along just fine until I came to an incline when it would buck and lose power....my fuel filter was REALLY clogged - maybe yours has something that blocks fuel just a bit and causes the "hiccup." Wouldn't explain your vaccuum drop, but.....??
 
I thought about that. It may be worth a shot. I just figured since it gets plenty of fuel when I stomp on the throttle, the filter wouldn't be plugged. I don't know? However, it is probably time to put a new one on anyway.

Thanks! :cheers:
 
carb

I think you are calling on the right guys for help but I will take astab--


Might look for the not so obvious vacuum leaks like the pcv and the brake booster

I have heard that smacking you hand down on the carb till it has suction then pulling off quick will clear out debris

carb cleaner?


"I get the hiccup when I give a slight throttle increase."

is the accel pump squirting?
 
Strange problem.
Since it didn't do it until you fiddled with the carb, I would suspect that it is carb related. Based on the low vacuum reading at idle, I'm guessing that the idle fuel port may be partially obstructed and you have to open up the butterfly to pull enough fuel from the transition slot to idle. Try spraying the inside of the carb with spray carb cleaner and then start the engine and rev it up to 2,500 RPM and then hand choke it to pull a high vaccum inside the carb. Repeat this a couple of times and hope that this may suck the problem out. Alternatively, remove the idle mix screw, spray it and then blow it out with compressed air.
 
Strange problem.
Since it didn't do it until you fiddled with the carb, I would suspect that it is carb related. Based on the low vacuum reading at idle, I'm guessing that the idle fuel port may be partially obstructed and you have to open up the butterfly to pull enough fuel from the transition slot to idle. QUOTE]

I agree with this diagnosis, but not the 'remedy'.

If the vacuum dropped at idle with no other changes turning the idle mixture screw, then the screw may well have discharged something into the idle circuit. This would also explain the off idle transition symptom too.

If it is truly isolated in the base of the carb, it only takes 3 screws and a couple of linkages to separate the throttle body from the bowl assembly and properly blow it out with compressed air. Then you also have the piece of mind of not wondering where the *(&%^ is gonna go next.

Best

Mark A.
 
If it is truly isolated in the base of the carb, it only takes 3 screws and a couple of linkages to separate the throttle body from the bowl assembly and properly blow it out with compressed air. Then you also have the piece of mind of not wondering where the *(&%^ is gonna go next.

Best

Mark A.

I was thinking about mentioning this possibility, but if people start to get comfortable with dissassembling their carb, there might be fewer people sending them out for a rebuild. ;)

If I went to the trouble of removing the base, I would just go through the whole thing to be sure it wasn't something else.
 
Thanks Pinhead and Mark! I was really hoping to hear from both of you!

Okay, so I did the method Pinhead described of reving the engine to 2500 and then hand choking it. I did it a couple of times and then went for a test drive. No real change.

So, I will give Mark's advice a try and see if I can blow something out. It'll have to wait until Thursday since I'll be gone tomorrow, but I'll report back with what I find.

Thanks again! :cheers:

Oh, and Mark, don't worry, I'll still send my carb back to you when it needs rebuilt! ;)
 
Getting a little frustrated...

Okay, so I tore my carb apart today. I doused it in spray carb cleaner and then blew out everything with compressed air. Put it back on and adjusted it. I can get a steady 20" of vacuum now at idle, but only for about a minute or two. After a minute or two (always a little different) the idle will drop from about 650 to around 500 and the vacuum will drop to 18 to 18.5. Huh? :confused:

So I went for a test drive, and now it is running lean. Trying to accelerate, I'm getting some backfiring/hiccuping from the carb. I checked the plugs, and they look like its been running lean/hot.

What did I do? As you can tell, I'm no carb expert. Did I plug up another port by blowing stuff around? Why does my idle and vacuum drop all of a sudden after a minute or two?

Again, any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks! :cheers:
 
Why does my idle and vacuum drop all of a sudden after a minute or two?

It does sound like a lean condition during acceleration.

Maybe a heat related manifold vacuum leak? This would not explain your acceleration problem. Does it run better with the choke partially on?

Did you completely clean out the carb when you had it apart? If you had it completely apart, are you sure that everything went back properly? Did you verify that all the ports and holes are clear? Does the accelerator pump squirt?
 
Why does my idle and vacuum drop all of a sudden after a minute or two?
Because the debris floating around in the bottom of the main well finds its way up against the end of the idle jet.
 
Did you completely clean out the carb when you had it apart? If you had it completely apart, are you sure that everything went back properly? Did you verify that all the ports and holes are clear? Does the accelerator pump squirt?

The simple answer is no, I didn't tear it completely apart - just the base. :bang: So, I tore it completely apart tonight. I cleaned out all the jets, ports, etc with spray carb cleaner and compressed air. I used the FSM to put it all back together, so I'm pretty sure I got it back together correctly. I got it all installed back on my rig tonight, but it got too late to go for a test run. I started it up and it ran, but not long enough to tune it. We'll see how it goes tomorrow.

Thanks again for everyone's help. I really appreciate it!

:cheers:
 
More questions

Well, after my last post, I went for a drive. It is running much better and some of the lost power that I noticed is back. However, I still have a little miss when I stomp on the accelerator. I have always had a slight hesitation, but now it is a miss. Also, I'm still having idle problems. If I set the idle at 650 and then rev the engine, the idle will drop down to 750 or so. After a minute or two, it will drop to 500-550 with an associated drop in vacuum. So, I started to look at the linkages to see if something is messed up or binding. I noticed a bolt hole was empty on the side of my carb. I looked at pictures on SORs website and noticed I'm missing the linkage circled in red in the picture. Is it important? Could that be part of my problem? I haven't had it on there since I got the carb back from Mark A rebuilding it.

I've always had a small problem with the idle in this rig, which was part of the reason I started fiddling with it. Once I fiddled with it, it became a much bigger problem. I'm sure I messed something up, but when I noticed the linkage missing, I started to wonder.

Again, help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks! :cheers:
042-01D-1-1.jpg
 
That would appear to be the "throttle positioner". It is emission control related and is not likely to be the cause of your problem. I would look more carefully for vacuum leaks. Can you stall the engine by turning in the idle mixture screw? If not, you may have a manifold vacuum leak that has been compensated by increasing the idle speed screw. Look for vacuum leaks that are hard to find with the spray technique, like the brake booster or a cracked intake manifold.
 
What did I do now?

So, I took apart my carb this week and blew out all the passages and jets like Pinhead suggested. I put it back together and it runs horrible now. The vacuum is down to about 15". If I push on the accelerator, it backfires out of the carb. So, I bought a rebuild kit thinking it was because I messed up the gaskets. I tore it apart again, replaced all the gaskets, blew out everything and put it back together. No change.

So, I thought maybe it was because of a crack in my intake manifold. One of the carb studs had been stripped out and repaired with thread compound. I had a spare manifold laying around and put that one on with a new Felpro gasket. No change.

Took the carb apart again and made sure it was all back together correctly (as far as I could tell). Still no change. I unhooked and plugged all vacuum connections on the manifold and plugged them. Still no change. I've sprayed 2 bottles of carb cleaner looking for a vacuum leak, but I can't find any on the outside. When I put a piece of cardboard over the top of the carb (checking for vacuum leaks) it just dies, no rev up first. Also, the idle mixture screw will kill the engine if I turn it in far enough. The fuel level is in the middle of the fuel window.

So what did I do to my carb that makes it seem like a vacuum leak? It's got to be something in the inside. I've replaced all gaskets, checked and rechecked all bolts and screws. I've tried adjusting the idle, but the vacuum won't increase. What did I do? Please help. I've had the carb apart about 7 times this week and it still runs crappy. I'm about ready to drive this off a cliff! :bang:

Thanks!
:cheers:
 
I'm having the same issues as you and am about ready to drive, (push) mine off a cliff as well.....
 
hiccup

I unhooked and plugged all vacuum connections on the manifold and plugged them.

What about the distrib vacuum to the vacuum advance?

Sometimes it is helpful to go through the basic easy stuff to check too cause you can get too focused thinking you caused the prob


might be worth a few minutes to check distrib cap, wires, plugs, and timing
and make sure the vacuum advance is working

Do you have a manual choke?

how do the plugs look? Sooty, Lean, wet?
 

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