near death steering

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by bandy rooster, Oct 21, 2005.

  1. bandy rooster

    bandy rooster

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    i'm now starting to get my 40 on the road that i've bought a couple months ago, its got 2.5" pro comp lift springs on a soa with no cut and turn, i'm running rancho 9000 adjustable shocks saginaw power steering with 36" super swampers.

    i'm spending most of my time redoing what the PO did wrong. Mostly just trying to make everything more reliable and clean....

    well heres what its like... when ever i'm doing over 20mph it feels like i'm going to die at any second the entire truck just sways around the road and i'm constantly countersteering to correct this and anytime theres a rut or bump in the road my cruiser hits the bump and flies out of control.....

    i'm pretty sure i have no castor shims in my front end and i'm not ready to cut and turn yet,

    1.i have a booger welded bent tie rod up front which i'd like to replace with marlin's stout tie rod replacements and then use 80 1-ton tie rod ends...

    2. i'd also like to get those things you put in between yours springs made of like teflon or something to soften the ride.

    3.I'm also pretty sure the front spring perch was welded on wrong because be spring sits funny and makes by bushings in the shackles bind a bit (cock-eyed)

    4.and somehow i think i need to adjust the tow in ...

    do these sound like the reason my 40 is nerve rackening to drive?? any other things i can do to make this more road worthy and stable?? thanks for your help i'm just not really keen on my steering knowledge...
     
  2. bandy rooster

    bandy rooster

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    heres a shot of the drive shaft angle....
    DSCN2405.JPG
     
  3. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

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    Is the pinion pointing at the Tcase? Or is it parallel to the ground?
     
  4. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

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    Okay, looks like the castor is okay.

    Start looking into everything else toe in could easily be an issue. As could a LOUSY steering system. How much play is in the steering wheel?


    Bushings okay?
     
  5. bandy rooster

    bandy rooster

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    i'd say its almost II to the ground check out the pic for yourself......i have an angle-o-meter thing that i can check the angles tomorrow... i currently don't have the truck with me its getting inspected (hopefully)
     
  6. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

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    Looks parallel to the ground. Although, it does not take much to put it out of wack..

    Look at everything. I bet something is loose.

    Jack the frontend off the ground and see if anything is loose..
     
  7. HawkDriver

    HawkDriver

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    Yikes! :eek:

    Let's see some pics of this PO's handy work. Closeups of the ujoints, perches, and a full view of the steering arms from the front would be helpful if possible.

    Hmmm, 2 inch springs with SOA and no cut and turn? I can't imagine what the u joint angles are. If you think that the perches are screwed up then you should surely get them right then go from there.

    Let's see what you got.
     
  8. HawkDriver

    HawkDriver

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    Jeez I take 5 minutes on a post and you guys already go to town. :D

    How can you see that castEr is ok from that pic? I'd almost say it's off a bit, but it's hard to tell. Can you take a pic from the side of the truck of the pinion? Let's see these perches up close and the shackles that you said were misaligned.

    Oh and be careful when that front shaft spins with that joint angle, have you checked for binding at full droop?
     
  9. bandy rooster

    bandy rooster

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    i can't take any pictures at the moment because i don't have the truck and i'm gonna prob buy a star tomorrow so i can post more pics...i don't think its binding at fool droop but it might....i don't get how my castor could be ok? with 2.5 lift springs on soa? i mean whoohaa theres gottta be something i need to do or there wouldn't be any fuss about cut'n and turn'n now would there ?lol


    dude this dipsh_ts handywork is amazingggg, i think he must have been cross eyed or welded with his feet...


    how do i measure the castor angle? and what should it be at with 36" meats?
     
  10. bandy rooster

    bandy rooster

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    any suggestions on the 4 things i mentioned on post 1?
     
  11. Mace

    Mace rock scientist.. Staff Member s-Moderator

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    Sounds good to me.

    (1-4)


    As for the teflon strips, you can always get graphite paint instead if you are having a hard time sourcing the strips..

    Get some stock springs to start with. I am POSITIVE that someone would trade straight across if not give you a bit more change for the lift springs.

    Also, you mentioned "how could the castor be correct??" if the pinion is basically parallel to the ground you are probably cool on the castor. But if it is a couple of degrees off, that is an issue.

    It LOOKS pretty straight to me. But a pic is not hte best way to figure things out to a degree or two.
     
  12. HawkDriver

    HawkDriver

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    OMG that was funny s***. Bwahahahaha

    Well if the perches were welded perfectly parallel to the old ones then the caster would be fine no matter how big the springs were and you would not have steering issues related to the caster. Assuming that your shackels are stock length as well.

    The cut and turn is really only to correct the ujoint angle by point it up out of the way of rocks which gives you the right situation to run a CV joint at the tcase and a ujoint at the pinion. In that configuration you need to get the caster set back to original by cutting and turning in order to be able to steer correctly.

    Well, post up when you can man. :cheers:
     
  13. H2o

    H2o

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    did you check rag joint? not sure if you would have one....
     
  14. landbruiser1

    landbruiser1

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    Mine was doing the same thing that you described. First thing you can try is park your rig on level flat ground and from a stop start driving and see what the steerong wheel does on its own. my darted to the passanger side. I then put in a set of steel degree shims and the problem went away. I think they were 1' but I am not sure. Made all the difrence in the world.
    And also try to run a diffrent set of tires and see if you still have the same problem. Swamper SX are as bad as a BOGGER on the street. Hope this helps.
     
  15. cardinal fang

    cardinal fang

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    Swampers are horrible on the street. Try a different set of tires, if that is possible. I hate my swampers, 39", they are great on the trail, but scare me to death on the road. They are for sale also!.
    I am a strong advocate of cut and turn on the front axle. Shims don't fix the problem, just diguise it for a while.
     
  16. cruiseroutfit

    cruiseroutfit Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Kind've :D

    I have never done a cut/turn so that we could put the caster back to original, seeing as original was 1-2 degrees (sometimes 1+ degree of side to side). In every case, we increase the caster to 3-6 degrees for better road handling. Toyota improved the caster on later Cruisers (FJ62's had some caster built in). So yes, the cut/turn does allow for proper u-joint angles (not just a CV joint) but it also improves the stock steering too. :D
     
  17. Pin_Head

    Pin_Head

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    Your handling problems sound like classic caster angle issues. The easy thing to do is take it in an alignment shop and have them measure the caster angle. You can also measure caster angle approximately using an angle finder and a straight edge to measure off of the machined flat surface on the top or bottom of the knuckles. You need to do this on a level surface.
     
  18. bandy rooster

    bandy rooster

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    i actually have 31's on it right now to get it inspected and it acts the same way still ...
     
  19. John Smith

    John Smith In the garage

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    From your description and looking at your pinion angle I believe your problem is most definitely caster. Looking at your ujoint angle currently at rest you will not have a choice but to cut and turn. For a temporary fix install some shims so the truck becomes drivable again. Wandering scary steering that follows ruts and no return to center on the steering wheel are classic caster issues. BTDT, scared me to death.

    I am running 5deg of caster on my SOA on 36in. Iroks and can run down the road at 65 with two fingers on the wheel and 18 wheeler ruts in the right lane don't impact the steering at all.

    If you would like to quickly get an idea of your lack of caster, park on a level surface, remove the front driveshaft at the diff and put an angle finder on the pinion flange. I bet you will find your pinion flange is aimed up towards the transfer case which is bad news caster wise unless it is a cut and turn, which yours is not.
     
  20. PabloCruise

    PabloCruise SILVER Star

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    Caster

    As I read your post and saw your pic, I thought caster as well.

    Everyone else here has said everything I would say about it...

    When wondering how important caster is to steering stability, ask yourself why drgasters (this one hits ~170 MPH on ethanol) run this much caster...
    MVC52F.JPG
     
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