My Ignition Broke! (2 Viewers)

[BILT4ME]

i in no way mean any dis-respect to be klear , you have done a excellent job outlining the step by steps in the first posts of this thread

please know that ...




the the metallurgy of Toyota locks , keys , and internal parts tumblers , springs , cylinder cores and bores is different then the same era Detroit big 3 had ,

as well as many other non-Japanese auto makers at this period



the TOKAIRIKA corporation is TOYOTA's OEM locks and anything keys maker , was in 1962 first FJ40 , heck even FJ25 , and still is today in 2022 , they are under the

BOSCH company now formally known as the ROBERT BOSCH a NipponDenso Company ..........

After Robert and the DENSO and Nippon family's had a TIFF , you can call it , all 3 split and there simply called DENSO now , BOSCH is BOSCH and

the NIPPON's are lost to pages of history ?




TORKAIRIKA , still was TORKIRIKA during most of the 91-97 80 series production , but scooped up by BOSCH and now goes by TORKIA only under the watch full eyes of BIG brother bosch



in the 1990's TOKAIRIKA used ALL steel tumblers and a Pot metal cast main lock cylinder , and a magnesium core or bore , part that rotates , our friends key is binding in and stuck bad from what he discusses above ?



i admit i had to and wanted to , dust off lock and key 101T student training manuals , because , in my 30+ years since T-TEN i have never crossed paths

with a person trying to fashion there own Toyota key with a hand file ? this is new and unique and different ....


and after he added the additional tech and facts , or as i might put it lightly , fessed up and came clean on the story of how this key became randomly stuck to

the why behind all things toyota and stuff ..........


i sat back and sipped a ROLLING ROCK , and indeed ponder the next move here ?


i can openly admit , i don't know SH#T about self fashioning any Toyota key , but now i have decided to help the person , get un-stuck because that's the right thing

to do here on MUD ,


if anyone thinks its all HAHA HA toyotamatt blew the dust off his T-TEN bourse books , photos or it dont exist rules apply 100% is fair




- when he wakes up i am going top offer @VonArnim a face time , to see closer if my snap ring idea will work ? if not he can mail me the lock stuck key inside and

all take a solid crack at removing key carefully and making his ign. - lock a quick as possible tuen around for him , there will be NO service fees involved here for him



Karma is king in my JIS world ........



i hope i explained the graphite use in a toyota well enough for you to understand ?

kindy matt

Well not really, other than steel, pot metal and magnesium.

The only thing that gets my attention there is the magnesium. The metal properties may influence usage. Now I will read more.

I'm all for helping if possible. I'm guessing the pins have hung up on a worn area and he needs to jiggle, bump, and rotate at just the right combination to get it out.

I think percussive maintenance is in order.

Thanks!

 

[ToyotaMatt]

Well not really, other than steel, pot metal and magnesium.

The only thing that gets my attention there is the magnesium. The metal properties may influence usage. Now I will read more.

I'm all for helping if possible. I'm guessing the pins have hung up on a worn area and he needs to jiggle, bump, and rotate at just the right combination to get it out.

I think percussive maintenance is in order.

Thanks!

your part of this TEAM here , and the very knowledgeable THREAD Starter in my opinion , hands down


- think of it this way , fellow member @VonArnim , found your thread you created on a similar topic , but not exact one , and posted reaching out for advise and

assistance because he is litterley stuck and can't proceed forward ?


that in itself in a good result of this thread at it's core , not that he is stuck , but that he found a place to refer to and post his TECH and issues in a group participation

helpful atmosphere .


we all are rooting for the key to become un-stuck at least i am 100% , i never asked if this was his daily driver , and if he has only on vehicle to get back and forth to

work or skool ? its really not my business to ask all that personal smack , but if so , it must be very frustrating to be stuck without a running vehicle right now ?


so , different well intended view points and contributing thoughts are what a good positive discussion on locks and keys on the 80 series are all about ,

and we have a chance collectively to help out a fellow member real time live get un-stuck , that's the real deal and a serious matter hands down to take serious


my 2 cents

matt

 

[VonArnim]

Well I don’t like to leave cliffhangers in threads so I wanted to post an update. No matter how much jiggle/twist/shake/push/pulling I did on this key, it was not coming out of the lock cylinder. I got a pm from @ToyotaMatt that said he may be able to help. He gave me his private number and I FaceTimed him. @ToyotaMatt gave me some ideas on how to try to get the key out, as well as confirmed to me that my cylinder appeared to be the original oem cylinder. We talked for about 25 min or so and he said if I couldn’t get it out he would help getting a replacement.

After messing with this thing for another hour or so I had enough and decided I was going to take the cylinder apart myself. Just to be clear @ToyotaMatt did not suggest this, It was my decision to drill the rivets out of the cylinder and drill out the top pin on my own. At this point I figured I would need to buy a new cylinder anyway. Below is a pic of the two side rivets I slowly drilled out. After that, I drilled, very slowly the top pin out (2nd pic).

After that I was able to gently pry off the front of the cylinder cap. The core then slides out. Mine was very gummy. I could tell some of the pins were sticking in place (3rd pic). After I got it apart I could push on the pins and release the key. I cleaned the entire thing with brake cleaner and an old toothbrush and made sure all the gunk was out.

Continued below..

 

[VonArnim]

After cleaning this thing, I had a dilemma, how was I going to get it back together? These cylinders were never made to be taken apart. I decided that since the cap on the front was pretty tight, I would mix up some JB Weld and glue it back together. This seems to have worked well. I let it cure for 24hr before touching it. Here is what it looked like reassembled. I sprayed a lot of wd40 in the cylinder and my original trace copy key was working again. It wasn’t smooth but worked with some jiggles. Now I still needed better keys that truly matched the cylinder code. I was skeptical that someone could have rekeyed the entire car.

After calling multiple dealers around me to get a key made, one said they had a blank and maybe could cut it. I had to go in person to get the original key code from Toyota (which is a W series code). That dealer said they have new key code cutting machines that don’t handle the old codes anymore. Then I called @ToyotaMatt.

@ToyotaMatt was able to cut a key with his Nippon Denso OEM SST computerized code cutting machine. He provided me with this beautiful zinc plated Code cut key. Rumor has it that I may have the first “gold” key to an 80 series. Anyway the key works perfectly. No jiggling, no dragging as I turn it. It’s perfect.

A big shout out to @ToyotaMatt for talking with me on the phone and providing a service the dealer couldn’t.

 

[reklund5]

Having just been through a ignition bracket rod issue on my new-to-me 1995 model, I thought I'd share my experience.

On my vehicle, you had to turn the key to the "start" position and then wiggle it around just right to get the starter to engage. Otherwise, it would act like a faulty starter- either a short click or absolutely nothing. I ruled out the starter, and started chasing other problems, Being that the vehicle has 345k on the clock, there were several very worn components to address. I started with a new ignition cylinder, as the one in it was aftermarket and didn't feel quite right. I took the OE cylinder and put in new wafers to the factory key code. (the vehicle came with 2 keys, one for the aftermarket ignition cylinder and another very very worn out original key that supposedly ran the doors and glovebox, but was too worn to do anything). Ordered OE key blanks and had them cut at the dealer- now one key runs the whole vehicle! Once I had that working smoothly, I slid it back in the column bracket and tested, however the problem persisted.

Further chasing led me to the ignition switch itself, which was very crunchy and didn't feel good either. I manually activated it with a screwdriver with it loose from the column, and had to get it "just right" to engage the starter. I ordered and installed a new OE ignition switch (84450-60270), put it all together, and still hadn't fixed the intermittent no-starter-action-unless-you-wiggle-the-key-just-right problem. Crap.

The only other part in line was the column bracket and rod described by the OP in this thread. Ordered the bracket assembly from Amayama trading and impatiently waited 10 days for it to arrive from Japan (45280-60290 bracket and 45897-12020 qty 2 breakaway bolts). While mine appeared to be fine visually, it was worn badly internally and veery sloppy when compared to the new one. Got it all installed, and now the problem is resolved. The s***ty aftermarket starter the previous owner installed grinds to life immediately when you hit the key now!

While the OP replaced only the rod to correct his issues, I think the bracket housing is subject to wear as well, and should be replaced if you're going all the way in there. The column drops down and rests on the seat easily by removing 2 bolts and 2 nuts that secure it to the crash bar, and it provides ample room to work and swap the parts. Perhaps we can add "no start" to the keywords in the original post?

 

[ToyotaMatt]

After cleaning this thing, I had a dilemma, how was I going to get it back together? These cylinders were never made to be taken apart. I decided that since the cap on the front was pretty tight, I would mix up some JB Weld and glue it back together. This seems to have worked well. I let it cure for 24hr before touching it. Here is what it looked like reassembled. I sprayed a lot of wd40 in the cylinder and my original trace copy key was working again. It wasn’t smooth but worked with some jiggles. Now I still needed better keys that truly matched the cylinder code. I was skeptical that someone could have rekeyed the entire car.

After calling multiple dealers around me to get a key made, one said they had a blank and maybe could cut it. I had to go in person to get the original key code from Toyota (which is a W series code). That dealer said they have new key code cutting machines that don’t handle the old codes anymore. Then I called @ToyotaMatt.

@ToyotaMatt was able to cut a key with his Nippon Denso OEM SST computerized code cutting machine. He provided me with this beautiful zinc plated Code cut key. Rumor has it that I may have the first “gold” key to an 80 series. Anyway the key works perfectly. No jiggling, no dragging as I turn it. It’s perfect.

A big shout out to @ToyotaMatt for talking with me on the phone and providing a service the dealer couldn’t.

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You indeed were the first Carbon Based life form anything 80 SERIES owner operator to be anointed via a GENUINE SKUNK-WORKS GOLDEN Key in

anyway , and that is solid PHOTOS or is does not exist fact i concur with 100% ...



sure others followed suit , but they were NOT owner operator ZERO , you were and that matters to me , THANKS !


below are all images of YOUR golden key of POWER !

 

[BILT4ME]

Having just been through a ignition bracket rod issue on my new-to-me 1995 model, I thought I'd share my experience.

On my vehicle, you had to turn the key to the "start" position and then wiggle it around just right to get the starter to engage. Otherwise, it would act like a faulty starter- either a short click or absolutely nothing. I ruled out the starter, and started chasing other problems, Being that the vehicle has 345k on the clock, there were several very worn components to address. I started with a new ignition cylinder, as the one in it was aftermarket and didn't feel quite right. I took the OE cylinder and put in new wafers to the factory key code. (the vehicle came with 2 keys, one for the aftermarket ignition cylinder and another very very worn out original key that supposedly ran the doors and glovebox, but was too worn to do anything). Ordered OE key blanks and had them cut at the dealer- now one key runs the whole vehicle! Once I had that working smoothly, I slid it back in the column bracket and tested, however the problem persisted.

Further chasing led me to the ignition switch itself, which was very crunchy and didn't feel good either. I manually activated it with a screwdriver with it loose from the column, and had to get it "just right" to engage the starter. I ordered and installed a new OE ignition switch (84450-60270), put it all together, and still hadn't fixed the intermittent no-starter-action-unless-you-wiggle-the-key-just-right problem. Crap.

The only other part in line was the column bracket and rod described by the OP in this thread. Ordered the bracket assembly from Amayama trading and impatiently waited 10 days for it to arrive from Japan (45280-60290 bracket and 45897-12020 qty 2 breakaway bolts). While mine appeared to be fine visually, it was worn badly internally and veery sloppy when compared to the new one. Got it all installed, and now the problem is resolved. The s***ty aftermarket starter the previous owner installed grinds to life immediately when you hit the key now!

While the OP replaced only the rod to correct his issues, I think the bracket housing is subject to wear as well, and should be replaced if you're going all the way in there. The column drops down and rests on the seat easily by removing 2 bolts and 2 nuts that secure it to the crash bar, and it provides ample room to work and swap the parts. Perhaps we can add "no start" to the keywords in the original post?

Thank you for sharing your version!
Suggested verbiage added!

 

[Kernal]

The OP's experience with a broken ignition rod recently happened to my 96 FZJ80.

Parked the vehicle after a short drive, turned the key Off and removed it, stepped half way out the door and noticed the engine was still running, looked at the Tachometer, engine was idling. Inserted the key into the ignition cylinder but noticed after turning from OFF to ACC-ON-Start there was no resistance, no spring back of the key, the key just turned loosely.

As the engine would not turn off using the key I popped the hood and pulled the EFI relay and it stopped immediately. However as the ignition switch was still in the ON position the Alternator light was on so next I disconnected the negative battery cable/clamp.

Then I remembered this thread, and long story short after reviewing the steps the OP listed in the first page I pulled the ignition bracket apart (removed the ignition cylinder and rod) and sure enough, the screwdriver blade-shaped tip of the rod that engages the ignition switch had snapped off exactly the same as what happened with Bilt4Me.

First photo is looking down the barrel of the Ignition bracket (cylinder and rod removed). If you look closely at the hole at the end of the barrel (magnify) you can see the (vertical) broken off tip of the rod sitting in the ignition switch itself. The steering wheel locking pawl can be seen on the right at the bottom of the barrel.

Next photo shows the broken rod above and new rod with intact tip below:

To remove the broken tip frrom the ignition switch I disconnected the switch from the rear of the ignition bracket (barrel) using a longish #2 Phillips head screw driver from behind by removing the single screw that holds it on. It's a blind procedure done by feel as the screw faces the firewall and is located close to the 12 O'clock position of the assembly. Haven't gotten it back together yet (waiting on parts) but expect the screw will be a challenge.

As the OP described I tapped the switch and the broken fragment fell out. The new rod cannot be installed with the broken tip of the old rod stuck in the slot of the switch

 

[Kernal]

I had to drive this vehicle before I finished the repair so used a flat blade screwdriver to turn the ignition switch which will start/stop the engine. However the steering wheel will remain locked due to the locking pawl not being pushed out of the way by the rod (see photo above).

So I reinserted the broken rod and ignition cylinder (make sure it locks into place) and then by turning the key the steering wheel pawl is pushed out/off by the cam on the rod (see photos). The broken tip does not affect the cam that pushes on the pawl. So I just have to carry a flat blade screwdriver to turn the engine on and off.

Warning: there may be a slight risk of the steering wheel pawl somehow going back into lock while driving with this hack but IDK how high that possibility is so only try this if there are no other options (ie: stuck in the middle of nowhere) and do so at your own risk.

Edit: added another warning (see long post below), there are bare soldered connections on the backside of the igntion switch that can short out if it touches the metal bracket, those contacts needed to be covered, coated, protected if you're going to use just the ignition switch to start the vehicle (ie: if you leave it dangling until you replace the rod that fractured).

 

[BILT4ME]

Update to show the new assembly I bought for new guts.
@Kernal

This shows what it comes with.

The break off screws are separate.

 

[Kernal]

Bringing this back to post up a potential problem I discovered if you drive the vehicle using just the ignition switch while it's disconnected from the upper bracket. Wanted to keep it all here instead of starting a new thread as it's related to the original topic.

So for a week or so I've been driving my 96 FZJ80 with the ignition cylinder/bracket all apart due to the broken rod inside the bracket
and using a screwdriver to turn the switch as discussed earlier. Just been too busy to put it all back together yet.

No problem right? Not quite, found one.

Long story: the wires on the backside of the ignition switch (the electrical switch, not the lock cylinder) have bare soldered connections that are not covered or protected. This is difficult to see unless you pull the switch out (there's not a lot of slack in the harness), I took photos in order to see what was happening.

So then with the switch dangling close to the metal upper bracket (see photos) all it takes is a random event, pull the switch too close to the bracket and the bare soldered connections can make contact, then POP and the smoke comes out of the 50amp AM1 fuse.

Toyota probably figured no one would try to start the vehicle in this manner
so no reason to cover those connections. But as we've learned, if that rod snaps inside the bracket this is the only way to start the engine. So there's that.

The first time this happened (two days ago) I didn't see any sparks (or smoke), wasn't sure at first what had happened (discussed with another member),and figured maybe it was just due to the original 27 year old 50amp AM1 fuse having gone through thousands of thermal cycles and some corrosion (green) of the copper strip which might have caused it to blow??

So I replaced that blown original AM1 red fuse with a new OEM (Pacific) 50amp fuse and went to turn the dangling ignition switch (using a screwdriver as before) and POP the new 50amp fuse blew again but this time I saw sparks down by the ignition switch (the lower plastic panel and metal plate under the steering column are both removed).

It wasn't immediately clear (at dusk with an eyeball) that the old 50amp fuse had blown until I took photos and magnified them. The next day I pulled the bad fuse and checked it with a multimeter which confirmed that it had no continuity. Fairly obvious now when looking at the photos.


As usual the photos tell the (shorter) story:

First photo shows the first time the (old) AM1 50amp fuse blew.

Note the green corrosion on the 60 amp fuse (the 50 amp IIRC had that same corrosion before it blew IIRC). To be clear, the 60 amp (yellow) fuse is not blown. Point is, the corrosion makes it a bit more difficult to visually tell if the fuse is good or not. Of course significant corrosion could potentially weaken the copper strip so replacing these fuses every XX years might be another PM (but in this case it was not the cause of the fuse blowing).

Close up of the blown original AM1 50 amp fuse:

Next photo shows new Pacific (OEM) 50amp (red) and 60amp (yellow) fuses installed. (Click the photo twice to magnify so you can see what a new fuse of this type should look like):

This last photo shows the new 50amp fuse which blew the very first time I turned the ignition switch after installing it (magnify for better view). Much easier IMHO to tell (using your eyeballs) when a new fuse is blown compared to an old corroded fuse.

Search terms: AM1 Fuse 50A 50Amp Pacific PAL

 

[Kernal]

And here's the culprit (hint: it's not the switch itself):

Basically the bare soldered contacts on the backside of the electric ignition switch came in contact with the upper bracket. This happened randomly when I grabbed the loose/dangling ignition switch to turn it using a screwdriver.

Note how the switch is oriented, difficult to see the bare contacts on the backside unless you pull the switch out and down. Toyota likely never figured anyone would try this method of getting the vehicle home so-to-speak so didn't cover the contacts to prevent arcing (or didn't figure anyone would be so stupid creative)


Magnify to see the burn marks when the backside of the switch came in contact with the upper bracket:

This shows the backside of the ignition swtich, note the exposed soldered contacts with what appears to be marks from the arcing:

Or course, the answer is fix the ignition correctly (replace the rod that broke initially) and put it all back together.

But the point of all this is if you're in the middle of nowhere 100 miles from civilization, power, water, food, tools, parts --- and the ignition rod inside the bracket breaks as discussed by the OP in the beginning of the thread, then the only way to start the vehicle AFAIK is to disconnect the ignition switch from the back of the upper bracket (discussed earlier) and turn the switch with a screwdriver.

So if you find yourself in this situation be aware that you can blow the AM1 50 amp fuse if the bracket comes in contact with the bare contacts on the back of the switch. Another reason IMHO/IME to carry a spare 50amp AM1 fuse along with your spare Fusible link bundle.

What I did as a temporary measure was to spray a few thick coats of Plastidip on the backside of the ignition switch to cover the bare soldered contacts (forgot that I had a can of red insulating varnish on the shelf).

But anything you could put between the two components should work in a pinch, paint the contacts with Insulating varnish or "Liquid tape", wrap some electrical tape around the wires on the back of the switch or put some tape on the barrel of the bracket, etc,etc. Anything to prevent contact until you can put the components back together.

This was also a reminder to carry spare fuses, particularly the not-so common 50amp Pacific brand fuse that fits in the AM1 position. None of my local autoparts stores carried this fuse, I did order a couple from the local Toyota dealer however.

Here's a link to a good thread from long ago discussing Troubleshooting including Fusible Links and Fuses:

Emergency Troubleshooting Procedures - FAQ Item (Recommend Keeping Copy in Truck)

For updates or revisions, please PM me, nuclerlemon or semlin The below is a troubleshooting guide if your in the boonies to help isolate a non starting vehicle problem. This is a compilation from forum members, specifically RavenTai, KliersLC, Landtank and Beaowulf. This will not catch each...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Kernal]

Here's a photo of the backside of the ignition switch after spraying multiple coats of Plastidip on the exposed contacts. If I replace the switch I may apply a few coats of Liquid Tape or Insulating Varnish on those soldered connections before I install it. For anyone who doesn't know, Insulating Varnish is that red coating you see on electric motor armature windings.

FWIW: Spray On makes a few different types of insulating varnishes, Clear, Red, and Green with slightly different specs related to high voltage (dielectric strength).

Insulating Varnish Chart | Sprayon

<< Back to the Categories Insulating Varnish Chart Attribute EL600 Clear Insulating Varnish EL601 Red Insulating Varnish EL609 Green Insulating Varnish Base Epoxy / Phenolic Air Dry Yes Sheen Semi-Gloss % Solids A: 22.83% A: 22.83% B: 61.7% A: 22.83% VOC* A: 55.17% A: 55.17% B: 418.31 g/L A...

www.sprayon.com

 

[ToyotaMatt]