My 60 keeps dying

Major Nelson

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Picked up my FJ60 from Trail Tailor yesterday. Looks incredible, handling is amazing…engine sounds great.

Here’s the weird stuff. When I come off the freeway and put it into neutral it just dies. (On the off-ramp) first time it wouldn’t start (or make any noise at all). Made it to valley hybrids and so far have Georg stumped. He’s had calls into his network and they’re all stumped so far.

Starter is good
Alternator checks out
New battery and fuesable link
New battery cables
Fuel filter had no debris in it.

Bypassed the solenoid to check that. Bypassed the ignition (now I know how to hotwire a 60)

Only dies coming off the freeway when I slow and take it out of gear. Drives around town fine.

Anyone ever have something similar?
 

garfieldthecat

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Mine will do this sometime when I come off the freeway and brake hard. I'm no mechanic, but its almost like all the vacuum gets sucked to the brakes and kills the engine--at least that's what it feels like on mine. At least I still manage to get it to stop :)
 

Major Nelson

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Thinking now is it might be the EGR valve or possibly the smog module.

2F engine with 193k on the clock
Jason built this out for me. Only thing not touched was the engine.
 

OSS

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Gotta have a vacuum gauge installed inside the cab so you can see what the vacuum is or isn’t doing just before it stalls.

Betcha it’s the EGR sticking open. That’s exactly what mine did.
Everything is roses while you’re driving and EGR is open, but come to a stop and put it in neutral with EGR stuck open and it’ll stall cuz giant vacuum leak.

If the EGR valve is stuck open, attach another piece of vacuum hose to the top of the EGR valve and blow as hard as you can with your mouth - like a trumpet player until it feels like your cheeks will explode- then usually the EGR valve will snap back shut.
That technique worked for me dozens of times.

Best to do it while engine is sputtering at a fast idle (pull out the choke knob). Then when the EGR valve snaps shut, the engine will race and you’ll experience true satisfaction.
 

garfieldthecat

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Forgot to mention the PO of my truck also installed an "RV cam," so its got a rough-ish idle and the AC makes it worse. EGR is more likely though if your engine internals have never been messed with.
 

TRAIL TAILOR

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Trying to figure this out... Myself, Georg, Marlin and JimC have all drawn a blank so far.

Rebuilt carb from JimC ( 1/4 turn on adjustments and all set perfect as always) , new dizzy cap and rotor, titanium sparks gapped per FSM/set to spec, new plug wires, valves are set, timing set, idles great at 750 with 900 A/C kick in, all vacuum lines replaced, no issues with battery., alternator or starter, fuel filter clean...

2F full smog equipped, fires right up with no assist from choke.

Jason
TT
 

fjc-man

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You could try hard wiring the ground wire side of the two wire idle speed solenoid. Which would eliminate the emissions control unit controlling when it’s open. Original ignition switch ( electrical contacts with high resistance)?
 
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Mine just did this the other month and it was a leak in the carburetor insulation plate/gasket under the carb. Was that replaced when you had the carb rebuilt?
 
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OSS

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And if it never idled smooth again - the EGR cooler can spit rust rocks into the EGR valve and permanently jamb it open. Gotta remove the valve from the engine to clean it out.
@CruiserTrash has an epic photo linked below

 
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DFXR

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Have you tried bypassing the EGR? Pull and cap the vac line from the (metal) EGR valve to the (plastic) EGR vacuum modulator. Make sure to swap the two vac lines at the distributor vacuum advance, so that you don’t run too much advance while the EGR is out of the loop.

Test drive. You can run it like this long enough to get home, if not longer. If you hear any pinging run 91-92 octane.
 

CruiserTrash

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Sounds like all the legendary heads are being put together on this one, so I really got no business talking amongst them … but here goes anyway…

I like @OSS idea of a stuck EGR valve (totally fubar’d) and @DFXR idea to force the EGR to be inop (which would check partial fubar).

@Hokie LX might be on to something too, with the carb insulator plate … or what I experienced last year with two carb hold-down nuts coming loose. I could drive as normal, but decelerating to a stop and idle the engine would die.

It really sounds like a massive vac leak coupled with a full lean condition related to a smog system that opens on the highway but not around town. (cough EGR cough)

Testing procedures in the Emissions FSM. Valve opening and closing conditions in the Emissions FSM. Look for stuff meant to open at high speed or rpm and close at low speed or rpm and test it.

One other thought …. Gun it around town, high rpms, but don’t go over 35mph. See if it dies while decelerating to a stop. You’re recreating the high rpms of the highway driving but not the high speed. Might be a way to tease stuff out further.
 

CruiserTrash

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Oh yeah, here’s the photo of inside my EGR cooler that @OSS mentioned. Granted, this was after scraping it, but still … nasty. And all that can get sucked up the flex pipe with engine vac when the EGR valve is open.

10412D4E-E3A8-4AF0-A7FF-BB935C670266.jpeg
 

orangefj45

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Here’s what we know.

Cruiser runs great especially around town. It’ll idle all day. The ONLY time the issue comes up is after driving at highway speeds at co stand RPMs for ten minutes or more. As you coast your a stop, the engine stalls. The tach shows proper RPMs which slowly drop.
The issue does not occur any other time.

Things we tested today:
1) Carb solenoid; has power and works. Even hot wired it.
2) air cleaner intake flapper valve is not stuck open.
3) We have fuel. Filter was replaced, the original was not contaminated.
4) All electrical in great shape including battery, terminals and all connections.
5) Ignition switch.
6) ECU
7) EGR disconnected and forced shut
8) pressure/vacuum in fuel tank

I tried everything I could think of. Reached out to Jim C and Marlin as well as my “smog guy”. So basically, I called in the heavy guns.
Scratching our heads.

I don’t think it’s a vacuum leak, a fuel delivery issue or an ignition wiring issue.

We’ll figure it out eventually…..

Georg @ Valley Hybrids @ Cruiser Brothers
 

CruiserTrash

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@Major Nelson
Thinking back again … like OSS suggested, tee vacuum off one of the lines coming straight out of the manifold, run a long hose into the cab, and attach to a vacuum gauge that you can see as you drive. Try a highway run and then decel on the off ramp. Watch the gauge before and as the motor is dying. It would be interesting to see what it says.

@orangefj45
Verified the EGR valve goes full closed?


Stabs in the dark:
-Ignition coil dielectric breaking down causing intermittent spark when it gets hot?
-Decel fuel cut vacuum switch or solenoid only getting stuck on when hot, coupled with a vacuum leak. At decel the fuel cut would stay on even as rpms go down and would starve the secondary slow cut circuit but coupled with a vac leak the mixture would go very lean and potentially cause a stall.
 

RodrigzCrzr

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I just read a thread on the Rising Sun forum. And this guy had all the same symptoms Major Nelson is having. Going through all the test that you all are doing. And also talking too Jim C.
What they did is switched out the carb and installed a fresh rebuilt carb from Jim C.
And his issue was resolved.
Once he switched out the carb he sent his carb he was having the same issues with to Jim C. To do an autopsy of the said carb. Note: the carb he sent out to Jim C. Was not rebuilt bye him.
But this is what he found. Maybe who knows it
could be a possibility it may be the same problem with major Nelson’s.
Maybe there is an obstruction somewhere in the carb circuit.
Hope this helps.

9EC8E6A7-BF82-410C-8E4E-76EDA5E11E89.png
 

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