Mr. Picky brings his 80 in for an alignment... (1 Viewer)

[IdahoDoug]

The 97 I bought used exhibits a bit of wander my 93 never has since new. Around here, the freeways have faint trenches where the tires wear from winter studs and the truck kinda feels like it grabs them slightly. It's very, very, very slight but I feel it once a month or so whereas the 93 never does it. I thought it would go away when I repacked the front axle, wheel bearings and knuckle bearings this summer but it only diminished by say 50%.

The truck 'feels' like it is a toe out issue.

So, one of the dealerships here got a fancy big dollar alignment machine and one of my buddies who works there did the alignment for me on it. He found it was toed out 0.10 and didn't think it would make a difference to change it. I disagreed, so he went about adjusting it. He wanted to put it at 0.0 and I asked him to give it a slight toe in.

Directly from the dealership, I got on the freeway and noted a difference. I'd say the wander is down to only 10% of the original amount, so this change was a very large impact again. I was tempted to bring it back and have another half degree put in but I suspect the tires may have taken a slight wear pattern from the slight toe out, so I'll wait and see. I'll be putting the snow tires on in the morning, which have not been on it to have that issue, so they'll be a clean test. If I still feel it, I'll tweak it again.

So, these beasts appear fairly sensitive to front alignment adjustments, which makes sense due to the inordinate width of the factory rubber. Informationally, to make that 2 degree change was about a half rotation of the steering rod.

My final front toe in totals 0.15 and spec is from 0.0 to 0.30 so I'm right in the middle of the range. In my experience, a slight toe in will improve handling subtlely.

DougM

 

[T Y L E R]

Princess and the Pea??


;p

 

[IdahoDoug]

I got yer' freakin' pea - right HERE man!!!!! Heh, that felt good....

I just wanted to check it before I slap the pricey winter Michelin Arctic Alpin 4X4s on it. Available traction on slippery roads is far more sensitive to precise alignment than dry roads. You wouldn't even notice a lack of grip on dry, but on ice if the tires are fighting each other they're practically slipping already before you ask them to do something else like brake or turn.

So, Princess is happy now..... And looking forward to a head to head test of these vs the other 80 with new siped Coopers. Wouldn't be fair if they weren't aligned.

DougM

 

[Kalawang]

IdahoDoug,


Glad to see I'm not the only one. My concern was for tire wear, so I kind of bullied the alignment shop to give me 0.0 toe and have been content since. I too experience a very minor road pull, and also a bit of brake pull, but the road pull is on a known worn portion of the road and the brake pull is extremely rare and apparently doesn't repeat when I try for it.

Overall, I'm content with the 0.0 toe and have not seen any bad wear on my tires.

Have you tried doing a rotation or switchover to even out your tires again ? It worked for me, but on a regular car.


Kalawang

 

[alia176]

Back when I had another full time 4WD SUV, I used to have the alignment shops set the toes at 0.0 deg. This is a good number for awd or full time 4wd vehicles. They tend to toe out a little while driving so the starting at 0 deg seems to work out well for me.

 

[chitown40]

I was just going to post up about alignment, as I had my new Geolandars put on this morning and I'm getting a little wandering, especially on the highway. Any wear problems with setting the toe to 0deg?

Ali -- These tires are great, and thanks again for recommendation and convincing me that they're as good as the Revos I was originally set on getting. I bought 5 LT285/75/R16's from Discount. Got them for $138 each installed and bought the Road Hazards on them also from your rec. Total out the door was $866, plus I have a $25 mail-in rebate. So, not too bad for 5 tires. These thing stick like glue, and of course it snowed this morning so I had a good chance to test out the wet weather handling. Plus the tread depth is something like 19/32 so it should take along time to wear 'em out.

Sorry for the partial hijack, Doug. And I don't think you're too picky at all, seeing as tires for these trucks aren't exactly cheap.

 

[Gumby]

I have often found wandering problems to be related to over pressure tires or caster problems.

 

[Tools R Us]

Back when I had another full time 4WD SUV, I used to have the alignment shops set the toes at 0.0 deg. This is a good number for awd or full time 4wd vehicles. They tend to toe out a little while driving so the starting at 0 deg seems to work out well for me.

The pulling load on FWD and AWD's causes toe in under load.

 

[T Y L E R]

I got yer' freakin' pea - right HERE man!!!!! Heh, that felt good....



DougM

I know .. but thats a no-brainer for you Doug



So you don't use studs in the winter down there?



TY

 

[chitown40]

I have often found wandering problems to be related to over pressure tires or caster problems.

I will have all the alignment spec once I take it in. Air pressure is good and even all around, so basic assumption is probably alignment related, specifically the caster. Have there been many stock height trucks with an excessive amount of caster, or is this problem mostly related to lifted trucks?

 

[Nay]

I'd toe in .1 without hesitation. I've found that any toe-out on a live axle awd rig leads to undesirable handling.

Nay

 

[robjam]

Air Pressure

So with all of this, I'd like to know if it is better to run the tires inflated to the tire manufacturer recommended psi (40psi cold on BF Long Trail) or to use the Toyota recommended pressures (32? up front and 38? in rear)?

I am on highways more than I would like to admit

 

[BOUNDER]

I got yer' freakin' pea - right HERE man!!!!! Heh, that felt good....

I just wanted to check it before I slap the pricey winter Michelin Arctic Alpin 4X4s on it. Available traction on slippery roads is far more sensitive to precise alignment than dry roads. You wouldn't even notice a lack of grip on dry, but on ice if the tires are fighting each other they're practically slipping already before you ask them to do something else like brake or turn.

So, Princess is happy now..... And looking forward to a head to head test of these vs the other 80 with new siped Coopers. Wouldn't be fair if they weren't aligned.

DougM

Humorous to mention this, but back in the day, I used to drive my girlfriends 1986 Mecrcury Lynx - front wheel drive. This car by far was the BEST vehicle for New England snow I have ever driven - up hills surpassing all stranded cars with ease. Just for grins-n-giggles, I would love to put it against a big, bad Land Cruiser in normal about-town winter driving mode - probably do just as well - bone stock - with twice.5 the gas mileage!

 

[IdahoDoug]

Tyler,

I ran studded/siped M/Ts for a decade here and switched to the new studless type two winters ago. For the most dangerous typical daily situations - ice at stop signs, black ice on crowned country roads - they're far better and are on my wife's rig specifically for safety lugging the cubs around. In snow that's 3" deep or more, I think they're equal but deeper than that favors the open and deep lugged more traditional M/Ts I used to run all the time. So this year will be an interesting comparo as my rig has my favorite previous winter studded tire, but siped and with no studs this time (planning to run year round if they're acceptable this winter) - Cooper Discoverer S/T.

We currently have a foot on the ground here at the house and are under a winter storm warning. 10 minutes ago I finished putting the Arctics on my wife's newly aligned truck and will be driving it tomorrow till I switch my stuff back into it. I've been driving it for a week after the head gasket just to keep an eye on things. I miss my CDs!!

DougM

 

[DJForrestA]

So with all of this, I'd like to know if it is better to run the tires inflated to the tire manufacturer recommended psi (40psi cold on BF Long Trail) or to use the Toyota recommended pressures (32? up front and 38? in rear)?

The tire rating on the tire is MAX PSI not what is recomended for the tire. Always run the Vehicle recomended pressure. The rating on the tire is telling you how much is maximum. Incase you have a trailer or a heavy load and need to add some air the stabilze the sidewalls. Run 32 or you'll end up with the center of your tires bald as an egg and the ride and driveability with go out the window.

 

[robjam]

Thanks for the advice

 

[Tools R Us]

The tire rating on the tire is MAX PSI not what is recomended for the tire. Always run the Vehicle recomended pressure. The rating on the tire is telling you how much is maximum. Incase you have a trailer or a heavy load and need to add some air the stabilze the sidewalls. Run 32 or you'll end up with the center of your tires bald as an egg and the ride and driveability with go out the window.

The tire pressure on the tire is Max psi recommended for the Max load marked on the tire. The factory vehicle recommended pressure is for stock size and construction tires, larger heaver constructed tires will take less and smaller lighter constructed tires will require more pressure.

My tires are rated at 3415 pounds of load each at 65 psi, most of the time it has four tires on the ground and the truck weighs 5000 pounds and the truck will never weigh 13660 pounds, so I will never need 65 psi in the tires.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Update.

Drove to a very isolated area 15 miles down a country road with 2-4 inches of heavy mashed potato snow on it in the 97. At a steady 45-60 mph, I constantly hit patches of deeper snow that USED to cause the steering wheel to jerk and the truck to pull. Remarkably, not a single time did it do this. I am quite surprised to get such a dramatic change with such a minor adjustment, but obviously this was what I hoped for and why I spent the money. The thing tracks like a guided missile like my 93 does and I highly recommend it. Just remember to hit the rear tie rod threads with PB Blaster or your fav penetrating oil and tell the tech so he'll like you.

DougM

 

[RavenTai]

I have a tire that needs to be patched, going to have them throw it on the rack also, my 80 has some wandering tendencies on the highway, I was not going to align it until I got tires but that is taking forever, curious what my caster is at right now anyway. I think it is play in the steering components, I tried adjusting the box but it has more play in one direction than the other so could not get it all out. But maybe a little toe will help hide the play.

So you are at .15 degrees toe in right now correct? Spec in the 96 LX manual is .2 (0.0 to 0.4) so close enough.

Toe–in (total) 0°12’ ± 12’ (0.2° ± 0.2°, 2 ± 2 mm, 0.08 ± 0.08 in.)

 

[IdahoDoug]

Raven,

Correct. That's in the middle of the range for the FZJ. Crosswind sensitivity is also markedly down.

DougM