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moving v8 forward, anyone move radiator?

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by milesstarkey, Feb 29, 2004.

  1. milesstarkey

    milesstarkey

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    i'm installing an auto, and need to move the engine forward to get as much room for the auto i can. has anyone moved the radiator forward on an fj40? since the bib folds forward i thought it would be an easy way to gain 2 inches. then put an electric fan in, and a short water pump. any help is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. milesstarkey

    milesstarkey

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    also, what would cool better, one 18" fan, or two 9" fans?
     
  3. Degnol

    Degnol

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    The surface area of an 18" fan is almost 3 times as much as 2 9" fans...if that answers your question. The shroud is as or more important. I wouldn't want to design an efficient shroud for 2 9" fans (assuming sucking, not blowing) No pun intended.
    Ed ;)
     
  4. TJDIV

    TJDIV Back in The U.P.

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    I would go with an 18" fan; wouldn't move the radiator; and more importantly, wouldn't go with an automatic.

    I did exactly what you're talking about and went through more money than my Cruiser was worth to get it done right. (put in a 700R4 auto) I would HIGHLY recommend sitting down and doing a pro/con list as to why you couldn't just go with an aftermarket manual transmission. Especially with a V8; you'll miss the hell out of being able to RPM it up a little with manual shifts. The automatic tames your beast.

    If you're into all that rock crawling and what have you; then I can understand the Auto, but you need to consider the extensive drive shaft mods and other issues; pinion angles, lift options; and your engine placement has to be PERFECT.

    .02 Good Luck. :cheers:

    Tom IV
     
  5. Rice

    Rice SILVER Star

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    Moved my radiator forward about 1.5 inches with no trouble. Be sure the screws holding the toyota name plate on the grill get good clearance. Between that and using a short water pump was able to get my engine up 7.5 inches and still use a clutch fan. Making my new drive shaft was only about $125 including balancing and putting on a double cardan CV joint so was worth it. The 18" fan is your better choice but mechanical is better yet (only do not use a flex fan). Remember if using an automatic you'll have to leave room for a tranny fluid cooler. A top quality aluminum with built in heat exchanger can make that job easy and wipe out over heating troubles.

    Rice

    Rice
     
  6. dinkleberry

    dinkleberry

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    Also if you use an auto yer gonna need a cooler. If you move the rad forward where are you gonna put it?

    I saw a rad shop online somewhere that made 40 rads with the built in cooler, but now I can't find it.

    The built in cooler will also make it run hotter.
     
  7. HI^C

    HI^C

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    TJ your killing me, BTW i decide i would post in all the other auto ?s threads posted as well.

    NEED RPM step on gas pedal and auto kick down. Tame your beast? for me $30 shift kit set it up for full strip, the hardest hitting shifts i have ever felt full down on skinny pedal, good firm with moderate pedal, shift kit not noticeable when driveing normal around town. ONLY thing the auto tamed was my left leg pushing the clutch in every 10mph, and me shifting all the time. IF anything auto made my cruiser more lively then it was.

    there is a thread by tewlman about sbc placement i posted how mine is setup.

    Which auto you looking at? which adapter? With a 327 I assume you have short waterpump?

    "The built in cooler will also make it run hotter." Make what run hotter?
     
  8. dinkleberry

    dinkleberry

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    [quote author=HI^C link=board=1;threadid=12297;start=msg113220#msg113220 date=1078172590]
    "The built in cooler will also make it run hotter." Make what run hotter?

    [/quote]

    Your radiator will have a harder time cooling the engine when it has hotter transmission fluid running thru part of it. :D
     
  9. HI^C

    HI^C

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    not really that much difference, liquid to liquid heat transfer, trans normal operating temp is very close to most coolant temps anyways, sometime coolant temps will actually be hotter then trans temp. but on hard use trans temps can be above coolant temp, but heat transfer and cooling is better with the trans in coolant. kind of a win win, not that much difference factor. COST on a radiator with trans in it can be a factor.
     
  10. dinkleberry

    dinkleberry

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    TH350 operating temp, in an FJ40, with a bone stock SBC, while wheeling, with no external cooler is going to go above 200 degrees. Not optimum, I agree. If you want it to last you wanna keep it around 160.

    Any radiator that has a built in auto trans cooler will not cool as efficiently as one the same size without a cooler. Whether its from the heat of the tranny fluid or the use of engine coolant space I'm not sure. But I do know that when you take a vehicle with an automatic trans and add an external cooler to the trans lines both engine and transmission run cooler.

    I would recomend a external cooler if running any auto behind a V8 in a cruiser. They work alot better.

    Speaking as a guy who rebuilt TH350s all day for 5 years as my first real job. :D
     
  11. milesstarkey

    milesstarkey

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    ok. what is an sbc? sometimes these abbreviations leave me out of the 'in' crowd. i picked up a rebuilt th350 with standard converter tonight for $325 with a year warranty. nice shop. told me to call anytime if i need help with my project. anyway i have the AA adapter to the 3 spd t/case. i'm getting the twin stick, a lokar 16" auto shifter, and the tranny shop is getting me a steel trans cooler at cost. they said aluminum don't stand up to abuse. i appreciate all your help. except TJDIV. keep your 2 cents.
     
  12. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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  13. TJDIV

    TJDIV Back in The U.P.

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    [quote author=HI^C link=board=1;threadid=12297;start=msg113220#msg113220 date=1078172590]
    TJ your killing me, BTW i decide i would post in all the other auto ?s threads posted as well.

    NEED RPM step on gas pedal and auto kick down. Tame your beast? for me $30 shift kit set it up for full strip, the hardest hitting shifts i have ever felt full down on skinny pedal, good firm with moderate pedal, shift kit not noticeable when driveing normal around town. ONLY thing the auto tamed was my left leg pushing the clutch in every 10mph, and me shifting all the time. IF anything auto made my cruiser more lively then it was.

    there is a thread by tewlman about sbc placement i posted how mine is setup.

    Which auto you looking at? which adapter? With a 327 I assume you have short waterpump?

    "The built in cooler will also make it run hotter." Make what run hotter?

    [/quote]


    Hey, I am biased. But, you're right; done right, it's a good mod. :-\
     
  14. milesstarkey

    milesstarkey

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    is there anyway to move the mechanical fan closer to the engine? do they make a shorter bracket that the fan attaches to? it looks like there is a spacer between the pump and the fan. if i took that out that would probably do it, eh. duh.
     
  15. Rice

    Rice SILVER Star

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    If there is a spacer, then removing it. If using a long water pump you can switch to a short one (with a little headache getting the right brackets), and there are fans that sit a little back on the hub ... at that point you will begin to get the fan hitting other stuff, pulleys and fanbelts.
     
  16. milesstarkey

    milesstarkey

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    how much room does a short water pump save? can a transmission cooler be stationed anywhere else, other than in front of the radiator?
     
  17. dinkleberry

    dinkleberry

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    [quote author=milesstarkey link=board=1;threadid=12297;start=msg113693#msg113693 date=1078231757]
    how much room does a short water pump save? can a transmission cooler be stationed anywhere else, other than in front of the radiator?
    [/quote]

    Not sure how much the short wp saves (maybe 2 inches), but it pushes you accessories (alternator, power steering) from in front of the motor to the sides. May cause new problems.

    Yes, you can mount a trans cooler anywhere as long as it gets an air flow and is out of harms way.

    Good luck!
     
  18. HI^C

    HI^C

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    Short pump 71-82 vette 3/4" shaft, 5 13/16"
    short pump 55-72 all else 5/8" shaft, 5 5/8"
    long pump 69-87 all else 5/8" shaft, 6 15/16"

    these are standard rotation pump only listed and were from only one source

    Also every 327 i have owned or seen had a short pump, please take a look at
    what you have. You can switch back and forth, but as already stated short brakets and such can be harder to find.

    Now i am 406, th350, 4speed case 3 speed gears. I have an older AA adapter that is about 1.5" long, which required change the front yoke and front driveshaft. With this setup i am 4" stock radiator to long style pump hub, i have about a 22" rear driveshaft (i can mearsure it if needed). The only other problem i have is i need to find transfer shifter that will work.
     
  19. HI^C

    HI^C

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    poser that is a loooooooonnnnnnnngggggggggggg adapter!
     
  20. TJDIV

    TJDIV Back in The U.P.

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    My 700R4 Adapter was the same. Might be the same adapter; I don't know.

    Imagine having 6" of lift and having to drop down the the rear axle with a driveshaft.

    :
    /
    /
    /
    /:

    Kinda like that.