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Manifolds removed today...Problems

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by Iron_Pig, Dec 10, 2003.

  1. Iron_Pig

    Iron_Pig

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    I removed the Intake manifold & header today. No positive I.D on the headers but local Chevy fans says it resembles a Clifford. It looks like the one in the pages of Manafre catalogs,except where "Bubba" hammered one of the pipes to make room for the intake manifold. ::)
    The intake manifold has been welded on the bottom at some point,under where the carb sets,at the bottom.
    The metal gasket had plenty of leaks,as I knew. The engine rebuilders used no sort of sealant when they assembled the manifolds to the engine.
    The problem is the manifolds,header in particular,appears to be off-plane. Probably due to some over-torqueing to qualm the leaks. :-X I have spent 3 hours today travelling to various machine shops that state they're not set up to plane the manifold/header.The one that did said he was booked until next week and the estimate was over $100. So here's my dilemma:
    Should I just hunt a blown motor to scavenge the intakes,carb,etc. and get rid of this botched Motorcraft carb, who-knows-what header and patched intake manifold?...not to mention the air breather ???
    If I go with what's on it would you replace the metal gasket with a paper-style? I've heard someone say they're better for headers to prevent leaks. Someone mentioned the "green" Spectre Off Road gasket. What's that? Their parts listing says nothing about what color they are ???
    I'll need a new gasket either way,so let's start there.What kind and how many? Any suggestions? I sure appreciate your time in helping me through this. If you happen to have the whole bolt-on set-up on the left side for a '78 2F laying around in the barn,let me know. Thanks.
     
  2. 60wag

    60wag SILVER Star

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    I'd replace the whole assembly with a stock intake/exh manifold and an Aisin carb. You'll probably never have to do it again. For the gasket, use a Toyota OE steel or a Fel-Pro graphite. Both good at mantaining bolt torque at high temp. The Kevlar/paper constructions are lame. Double gaskets are a sure way to lose all of the bolt stress and have leaks, unless you enjoy retorquing the manifold every few months. Its not the place to save a couple of bucks. I have had manifolds surfaced by a local machine shop. The had a jumbo belt sander that surfaced the whole manifold assembly. Have the intake and exhaust bolted together for surfacing. You'll probably want to replace the two gaskets and check for intake cracks and exhaust heat deflector operation before the assembly is flattened.
     
  3. IDave

    IDave

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    If the header is warped only a little, I would probably just try to crank it down. I don't think it was a cast item. If the intake is bad, find another. The green SOR gasket is "Kevlar". I replaced it when it leaked on me (it was fine with the 2 piece SOR I had originally, but leaked with the MAF). It is what they provide with their headers, but I don't think it is good enough to work with the MAF one piece. Two OEM metal gaskets with high temp copper Permatex is the way I went. Patched intake is probably all right, if it isn't warped and the patch has held so far.
     
  4. IDave

    IDave

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    P.S. I have not had any loose manifold nuts for 9 months and 12000 miles with my setup.
     
  5. Chef

    Chef

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    60Wag nailed the gasket q. If you can't get them milled together, put the intake in your vice, and get the biggest flat file you can lay your hands on, and run it over the sealing surface to find the high spots, then work them down to the low spots. Work across several runners at once. Same for the header...
     
  6. fsusteve

    fsusteve

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    First off, you need to find another machine shop if possible, this is very basic stuff. Any shop should be able to grind the manifolds to fit. Chances are the intake is ok, but check both with a straight edge. I'm with Dave, I've used gaskets from NAPA, doubled up and have never had a leak or had to retighten bolts yet. Not saying it can't happen, but I 've done this a few times with no problems. If the header is whacked, order a new one, not that much and much more efficient then the factory exhaust manifold. Good luck.
     
  7. toddslater

    toddslater

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    The Felpro gaskets are good...better than AA or the one that came with my header. Can't speak of the kevlar stuff...sounds pricey though.

    I'm with FSUSteve and IDave, plane the intake, drop a 150 on a new header....and spend 15 bucks on a rebuild kit to see if the carb responds. Seal it all up see whats what from there.
     
  8. Iron_Pig

    Iron_Pig

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    Is the NAPA gasket considered an OEM? We don't have a Toyota dealer for miles.
    Was 60wag referring to finally using one or two gaskets to prevent the bolts from loosening?
    I'm sure I'll get this thing whooped yet :mad:
     
  9. IDave

    IDave

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    I think you can get the FelPro at Napa. OEM has to come from a dealer, or CDan on this board can probably get it. Or, SOR and, I am sure, other online concerns have them.
     
  10. Slowerthanu

    Slowerthanu SILVER Star

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    I have had good luck with the coolcruisers.com gaskets, prices are better than SOR and the service is nicer.
     
  11. dd113

    dd113

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    I would buy new headers or buy an entire intake ex set up used. Stock is better in the long run but might be impossible to do right now (money, availiability etc...)

    I like the TPI one piece chrome headers but the SOR have good reviews also. New intake is not expensive or hard to find. I think SOR has them used for around $100.

    Take the time to chase or replace all the studs. Buy new OEM bolts and washers for the studs

    In Atlanta there is only one place that I know of that can handle f series manifolds for planing. it is an issue with lenght. Older style and extra long = not many shops still have the equipement to do it.

    NAPA gaskets are as good as OEM for the manifolds and MUCH cheaper; IMOHO.

    This is enough of a PITA not to do it twice.
     
  12. IDave

    IDave

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    Dave,

    When you say "stock is better in the long-run" do you mean stock exhaust being better than headers?
     
  13. dd113

    dd113

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    [quote author=IDave link=board=1;threadid=8642;start=msg74326#msg74326 date=1071117358]
    Dave,

    When you say "stock is better in the long-run" do you mean stock exhaust being better than headers?
    [/quote]

    yes, That is exactly what I am saying :D I have headers on my rock crawler and would not change them out for anything. You will get a real impact from headers. More HP and more seat of the pants power right off. If the stock ex manifold is shot and money is an issue nothing wrong with headers.

    Almost every truck that comes into my shop that has headers has issues with them. It is possible to install them and have them work well for a long while. I have done it enough times. I would not remove a good ex manifold for headers. They will leak eventually. Every one will leak. If you take it off after a few years of use you might as well buy a new one.

    The stock set up does not leak if planed. it ill last for years and years. If the stock is shot, as many are, then consider headers.

    Please, dont split a good set of IN/EX manifolds. If you want headers sell your set of stock then buy a used intake manifold. They are all over and cheap. There is a finite number of matched manifolds.
     
  14. IDave

    IDave

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    Other than the leakage issue at the manifold gasket, what makes the in/ex better? The heatriser? They all seem to burn out, eventually, and there's no replacement. Also, there are potential/actual exhaust leaks around them. How does that play in your experience, Dave?
     
  15. dd113

    dd113

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    [quote author=IDave link=board=1;threadid=8642;start=msg74410#msg74410 date=1071153467]
    Other than the leakage issue at the manifold gasket, what makes the in/ex better? The heatriser? They all seem to burn out, eventually, and there's no replacement. Also, there are potential/actual exhaust leaks around them. How does that play in your experience, Dave?
    [/quote]


    I agree with you 100%. There really i not any advantage to the stock set up except for longer life and better sealing. There are disadvantages as it is a major PITA to replace the easkey for the heatriser and it will leak but it might take it a long time to start. The heatriser is nice to have it you live in the north. You are right, they usually are broken but can be fixed (sometimes). I have used the hot water heatriser replacement with good luck as a replacement for it on headers.

    I have nothing against headers. I run them on my trucks and install them on others trucks. Nice thing about stock is that new gasket will last forever, with headers you only ge a few years.
     
  16. IDave

    IDave

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    Actually, Dave,
    I was hoping you could come up with more good reasons for me to go back to stock, which I would like to do eventually. (So I can justify it to my wife, you know.) But I haven't found an exhaust manifold with a functioning heatriser: those little springs rust away and there are no replacements that I have found. Where I live, the heatriser is important, and I am not completely happy with the fluid riser I have. Plus, I like stock. :cheers:
     
  17. dd113

    dd113

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    Try SOR for the manifolds . You will pay a bit more than you want but they will have a good one with a heatriser that works. I do not plan on headers on any of my other trucks. I dont like to worry about stuff and I worry about headers and leaks.

    if you need to convince your wife I can do a "special" reply that will show the overwhelming advantage of returning to stock :flipoff2:
     
  18. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    Been running the same two piece header from SOR, that I purchased new in '89. Swapped onto the '82 engine, in '96. Still going... No leaks using high temp silicone and one of those no good green gaskets from SOR. :p


    Good luck!

    -Steve
     
  19. IDave

    IDave

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    Dave,
    SOR has a new exhaust manifold for 250 bucks without the heatriser parts, which they do not have to sell (or I'd get them for the one I have sitting in the barn now). They have used in/ex combos for about the same price, but I don't know if they will guarantee that the heatriser works on them, either, and that's a lot to pay for something I already have. My hope is that a used exhaust will show up, inexpensive, and with the working parts that I can transfer to my original. Then I have to convince my wife.....

    Steve,
    That 2 piece SOR is a great, inexpensive header. The only reason I switched out was to accommodate my PTO winch driveline. I think you could use any halfway decent gasket with that one.
     
  20. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    This, similar to many things Dave, I attribute to dumb luck...
     
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