MAF dba premuim rotors (1 Viewer)

[Zimm]

anybody ever use them? they cost 470 for the kit... i mean... why pay lexus to machine mine and toss on oem pads when i can throw these on myself? not sure on cross drilling, but the slotted ones work better.

opinions? 100 board wisdom?


edit: the dealer wants 560 for the service.

 

[Jim_Chow]

I'm planning to go w/ powerslots or powerslot cryos. I'm thinking about using the Porterfield R4s pads instead of OEM since I discovered the OEM ones fade a lot in traffic whereas the Porterfields don't (I have them on my 4runner...so far 75K mi on them plus the powerslots w/ no issues, braking is excellent).

One of my coworkers who track races tells me it's sometimes not the rotor that's warped, but the pad material deposited on the rotor is uneven due to improper bedding. When you replace new pads, you should resurface the rotors or replace the rotors so the pad/rotor contact on an even, clean surface. If you replace the rotors and use old pads, you at least need to sand the pads down. The old pads don't wear well to the new rotor and vice versa (slots don't cut the old pad flat, etc.). Since they don't make full and even contact, the pad material is deposited unevenly (when bedding) and/or the rotor heats unevenly. This stuff didn't make sense to me until I researched what brake bedding does. Now I'm convinced that pads should be changed at the same time as rotors.

 

[spressomon]

Installed ART cryo slotted (not slotted edge to edge and bottom of slot is radiused) rotors at each corner along with the Porterfield carbon (rear) and kevlar (front) along with SS lines last June. Have 12K on them including trailering my AT Horizon and they are flat out incredible: The difference is astounding compared to OEM/stock. They're not cheap...but I'd make the same decision again if I had to no question about it.

I have used cryo rotors before and they perform as advertised: Better performance; longer lasting; cooler running. If I ever go to 37" and 5.29's my R&P will get cryo'd too!

ART website:

http://member.newsguy.com/~nutech/frames.html

 

[Jim_Chow]

FWIW, the powerslots on my 4runner now are slotted brembos (says brembo along the vented circumfrence). IIRC, the slots also don't go to the edge. The guy who I know who races says powerslot, powerstop, brembo, etc. are all good rotors and all about the same. He doesn't think the cryo will make a difference for street use, maybe for racing use where some guys go through a set of rotors/pads in 2 weeks. The cryo treatment is only $11/more per rotor if you get them on sale, so no big difference. I doubt the ART's be any different than the powerslot cryos.

The porterfield R4s pads on my 4runner have amazing fade resistance. Initially, I felt the initial bite was lacking on cold rotors (when I just installed them in LA), but articles say it can take 500 miles to fully break in rotors/pads. I haven't experienced any lack of braking here, but I'm also running a Toyota v6 pickup booster now instead of the feeble 4-cyl booster as before. That made an amazing difference in itself. Now, braking is better on my 4runner than my honda prelude SH w/ stock rotors/pads, and that's 4 wheel discs on a sports car vs rear drums on a truck! Whatever you get, make sure to go w/ new rotors and pads at the same time and bed them in properly according to the maker's instructions.

My logic now is if one has to replace the rotor (or machine it) everytime the pad is replaced to guarantee perfectly true brakes, one might as well get longer wearing pads, and the porterfield R4s show no real signs of wear 75K mi later. Spressomon, how are yours holding up? My feeling is the OEM pads won't last as long.

 

[Zimm]

how much? cost drives the project.

 

[spressomon]

Spressomon, how are yours holding up? My feeling is the OEM pads won't last as long.

With just over 12K on them including trailering the rotors and pads look like new (no wear indicated).

 

[spressomon]

how much? cost drives the project.

If dollars rule over performance better stay with OEM. And if you are not carrying heavier loads than stock (bumpers, drawers, trailers, larger tires, etc.) it may or may not be justifiable to do a HP brake kit anyway. However with how my rig is set up the stock set-up wasn't cutting it...but again with steel bumpers, AO drawers & contents, fridge, dog, gear, trailer, 35" the extra margin of safety and solid brake control was more than worth the $1,000 I invested (includes 4-ART rotors, Porterfield carbon and kevlar pads and custom SS brake lines).

 

[spressomon]

He doesn't think the cryo will make a difference...

I disagree based on my own experiences (road use only). Audi 4.2L A6's ('00, '01+) are notorious for their heat effected rotor issues. A set of cryo'd ART's eliminated the issue (we live in mountainous terrain which on the downhill side is a great test of a brake systems ability to dissipate heat). All for 1/2 of what Audi wanted to replace crap with crap!

 

[Greg B]

I ended up going with EBC Greenstuff pads on OEM rotors and like them fine but, when these pads wear out, I'm following Spresso's lead when I need rotors and pads.

 

[Jim_Chow]

Best price I found on the Powerslot cryo's are $252 for the fronts and $239 for the rears (non-cryos are $232 FR and $216 RR). For the porterfield R4s, $120 for the fronts and $80 for rears. Price is about the same for both axles regardless of the vehicle. So figure about $700 for all 4 wheels. For my purposes, the OEM pads would be fine, but my feeling is the fronts won't last more than 60K mi, and that's not long enough for me if I have to replace the rotors.

Back before I got the R4s for the 4runner, I was going to get Perf friction carbon metallics since they made the TRD pads for the 3rd gen 4runner at that time, but they didn't make them for the 1st gen 4runner. Just checked the performance friction website...they don't make them for the 100, either.

 

[NMuzj100]

why pay lexus to machine mine and toss on oem pads when i can throw these on myself?

I don't have any experience with the aftermarket gear but machining a rotor was only $11 last time I had it done and if you are willing to do the work for the aftermarket why not do the work yourself for the OEM? Cruiserdan can get you the parts.

If you really want to know about brakes read these ...

StopTech White Papers

If you have good pics of your aftermarket setup on the 100 please post em.

Stainless Steel brake lines are another upgrade available and depending on the age of the vehicle the lines may be ready for replacement. The rubber lines on my 98 show cracks and I've thought about replacing them. About $200 for the four corners.

 

[Jim_Chow]

I don't have any experience with the aftermarket gear but machining a rotor was only $11 last time I had it done and if you are willing to do the work for the aftermarket why not do the work yourself for the OEM? Cruiserdan can get you the parts.

If you really want to know about brakes read these ...

StopTech White Papers

If you have good pics of your aftermarket setup on the 100 please post em.

Stainless Steel brake lines are another upgrade available and depending on the age of the vehicle the lines may be ready for replacement. The rubber lines on my 98 show cracks and I've thought about replacing them. About $200 for the four corners.

The only thing I'm not sure if I agree on is once the rotors/pads are properly bedded and you stop hard and stay stopped, the rotors will not warp (or should we say, the deposit of pad material won't get messed up). Maybe if you do this repeatedly so that the pads/rotors are so hot they're almost smoking, but from what the coworker who races tells me plus my own experience from occasional hard stops in traffic (like you can't make the yellow and slam on the brakes) and staying on my brakes lightly, they won't warp. It's really the critical time before they're bedded that matters, but it can take many hundreds of miles driving to properly bed the brakes. Maybe it also depends on the pad, as street performance pads can handle a lot more heat than OEM pads. I've never had any issues w/ my Porterfields getting too hot, let just say.

 

[NMuzj100]

I agree that once properly bedded that the stopping hard and staying on the brakes is unlikely to cause an uneven pad deposit. I think that a hard stop in normal driving is very different than the pretty extreme use of the brakes in race conditions.

After driving down the Pikes Peak highway or off a tall mountain pass though I think it's reasonable to try and not stay parked with the pads stopped at one place.

 

[spressomon]

I agree that once properly bedded that the stopping hard and staying on the brakes is unlikely to cause an uneven pad deposit. I think that a hard stop in normal driving is very different than the pretty extreme use of the brakes in race conditions.

After driving down the Pikes Peak highway or off a tall mountain pass though I think it's reasonable to try and not stay parked with the pads stopped at one place.

Another benefit of the slotted rotor: If you do can not let your foot off the brake after coming to a stop after hard/prolonged use, the slot allows pad gasses to at least partially dissipate/escape.

 

[Jim_Chow]

I agree that once properly bedded that the stopping hard and staying on the brakes is unlikely to cause an uneven pad deposit. I think that a hard stop in normal driving is very different than the pretty extreme use of the brakes in race conditions.

After driving down the Pikes Peak highway or off a tall mountain pass though I think it's reasonable to try and not stay parked with the pads stopped at one place.

I can usually avoid using the brakes much at all on downhills since I can downshift the gate shifter into any gear (4th,3rd,2nd,L) so the tranny won't shift above that gear. Driving downhill feels exactly like driving a 5spd manual...foot off the gas & brake, coasting at a constant speed.

 

[NMuzj100]

I can usually avoid using the brakes much at all on downhills since I can downshift the gate shifter into any gear (4th,3rd,2nd,L) so the tranny won't shift above that gear. Driving downhill feels exactly like driving a 5spd manual...foot off the gas & brake, coasting at a constant speed.

I do the same and have never experienced a "warped" rotor.

 

[calamaridog]

I have slotted rotors up front and they work good. Will replace the rears soon too.

I'm using SP rotors and Hawk pads.

I'm under the impression that cross drilled rotors are not good on heavy vehicles like ours.

 

[Jim_Chow]

I'd avoid the cross-drilled. They can crack between the holes, plus you lose a lot more surface area compared to solid or slotted rotors. They're mainly for looks. I think my rotors "warped" or should I say pad material became non uniform when the dealer changed the front pads at certification time and the new pads weren't bedded in, nor was the front rotor turned to guarantee a smooth, clean surface for bedding. Too late now. I doubt you'd notice improperly bedded brakes in the rear compared to the front.