M416 Hard Lid-Hinges & Seal Ideas Needed

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I want to build a hard lid for my M416, but I need some ideas regarding the hinges and the seal. Ideally, the end result would be similar to this though the jury is still out on side opening or front / back opening.

But what I really need is some specific ideas, or better yet, pictures, of the hinge and seals. What have others used? Piano hinges? I thought about maybe using the hinges from a 60 series tailgate. Would I need to reinforce the sheetmetal where they attach to the M416?

The other issue is the seal. I'm need to find a source for a rubber seal that will crush and kind of conform to the round lip at the top of the trailer.

On the topic of sealing, the hinge comes into play again. Different pivot points and hinge designs impact the way that the lid will contact the trailer as it closes - particularly on the side where the hinges are. For instance some hinges will cause the lid to come down on the trailer near vertically, while some will cause the lid to "slide" into place. Does anyone have any input as to what design would work well?

If you can't tell, I'm lost. I can handle the easy part - welding up the lid - it's the engineering parts I need help with.

Thanks
Reid
BJ70, FJ60, FZJ80, M416
 

kcsmithson

 
 
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Give me about a week and I will have some pics of mine. The lid is almost complete. It will have a flat top and a lip all the way around. Pretty much like a shoe box lid. I am still deciding on the final design of the hinges. I should be able to tell more in the morning what is going to work best when I take the trailer in to check the fitting of the lid.

I copied Exiled's design as his seems to work well.

Thanks Henry. :cheers:

Here is a link to a bunch of m416 trailer info. Check the link to Henry's (Exciled) trailer at the bottom of the page.

http://vegasauto.net/m416.html

Chad
 

Mike S

 
 
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Reid

I used a very HD continous hinge across the front - slightly spaced out to allow the lid to close over the trailer box. We used bolts to hold it on, so that lid can be removed easily, if needed. If you have a tailgate you need to allow it to open when the lid is down, so the seal and rear top lip need to be built to accomodate. Mine uses an aluminium lid wih cross braces, dual gas rams on each side that can be adjusted, and a foam seal in the lip of the lid.

Here's a photo. Been posted before, but you may have missed it.

 

Lars

 
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Apr 17, 2003
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I thought about using some type of pin connecting devices to hold a deck lid on mine so that it will be easily removed.... rather than a hard mounted hinge. I had also thought adding some simple fold out legs under it so it could be used as a table when camping.

Now I think I'm going to go with something almost identical to the 4x4trailer design. I like the increased storage capacity with the ceiling of the lid sitting a number of inches higher than the trailer deck and the handy roof rack.


* edit - this place has a free catalog which should have any mounting hardware you could possibly need plus the weather stripping as well...
https://reidecom.reidtool.com/xephr/qbe/HOMEPAGE
 
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Chad,
I'll be looking forward to seeing what you go with. I, too, plan to do a "shoe box lid" type of design, although on the side with the hinges, it may be necessary to omit the "lip" to avoid interference. Either that, or come up with something a bit creative for the hinge. Otherwise, the below problem occurs (see attached).
Thanks for the link. I've seen that site before, and that guy documented his job really nicely. But I didn't know he had a link to pics of Henry's trailer. I'm glad to have re-aquired those pics - I used to have them on my HD years ago, but a computer crash stole them. Alas, no hinge pics, though.

Mike, your set up looks good. I had seen that pic before. I don't see the seal though - was it not yet installed at the time of the pic? Also, does yours have a small "lip" - it's hard to tell in the pics? If so, did you have to omit it on the hinge edge? Got any pics specifically of the hinge area?


Lars - I'm going to build a few inches into my lid for extra space as well. Right now, I use the standard tarp, and never is the load flush with the top. Always I load up to above the rim. The tarp handles that ok - I want the lid to, also.

As for the removable pins in the hinge, that was something I was contemplating, too. When my trailer isn't doing "camping duty" I use it for hauling wood, engines, etc. The lid needs to come off easily. Although Mike's set up of having a couple of bolts to undo and off would work for me too. I don't want it to be too easy, since security is part of the reason for the lid in the first place.

I'm appreciative of the responses so far, but would certainly be interested in more ideas / discussion / pics.

Reid
Trailer_lid.gif
 

kcsmithson

 
 
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This is the best shot I have of the hinge set up on Henry's trailer.

Chad


cruisermantis said:
Chad,
I'll be looking forward to seeing what you go with. I, too, plan to do a "shoe box lid" type of design, although on the side with the hinges, it may be necessary to omit the "lip" to avoid interference. Either that, or come up with something a bit creative for the hinge. Otherwise, the below problem occurs (see attached).
Thanks for the link. I've seen that site before, and that guy documented his job really nicely. But I didn't know he had a link to pics of Henry's trailer. I'm glad to have re-aquired those pics - I used to have them on my HD years ago, but a computer crash stole them. Alas, no hinge pics, though.

Mike, your set up looks good. I had seen that pic before. I don't see the seal though - was it not yet installed at the time of the pic? Also, does yours have a small "lip" - it's hard to tell in the pics? If so, did you have to omit it on the hinge edge? Got any pics specifically of the hinge area?


Lars - I'm going to build a few inches into my lid for extra space as well. Right now, I use the standard tarp, and never is the load flush with the top. Always I load up to above the rim. The tarp handles that ok - I want the lid to, also.

As for the removable pins in the hinge, that was something I was contemplating, too. When my trailer isn't doing "camping duty" I use it for hauling wood, engines, etc. The lid needs to come off easily. Although Mike's set up of having a couple of bolts to undo and off would work for me too. I don't want it to be too easy, since security is part of the reason for the lid in the first place.

I'm appreciative of the responses so far, but would certainly be interested in more ideas / discussion / pics.

Reid
 

Mike S

 
 
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cruisermantis said:
Mike, your set up looks good. I had seen that pic before. I don't see the seal though - was it not yet installed at the time of the pic? Also, does yours have a small "lip" - it's hard to tell in the pics? If so, did you have to omit it on the hinge edge? Got any pics specifically of the hinge area?
Here is the hinge area on my trailer. Heavy duty, continous stainless hing. Bottom is spaced out 3/8" from the box. Fastened with stainless bolts. This swings up to about a 45 degree angle and does not leak when running in the rain.

I also have a picture of how the lid and tailgate meet with the rubber seal, if you are interested.

Mike

 
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Mike S said:
Here is the hinge area on my trailer. Heavy duty, continous stainless hinge. Bottom is spaced out 3/8" from the box. Fastened with stainless bolts. This swings up to about a 45 degree angle and does not leak when running in the rain.
Perfect. That's the kind of pic I was looking for. Thanks.

Mike S said:
I also have a picture of how the lid and tailgate meet with the rubber seal, if you are interested.
I'm very interested - you can send it PM to cruisermantis@home.off-road.com . Bandwidth not an issue.

BTW - I found a pic (click the second thumbnail on the bottom of page for a hinge view) of how Adventure Trailers is doing the hinge setup. Granted, the whole trailer is a departure from the M416 concept, but the hinge, etc is still relevent. The method they use is a simple way around the lip interference I drew out above.

These trailers are pretty damn nice. They cost a good deal of money, but all things considered, I think the base model seems to be priced fairly. Still, way out of my range.

I'd love to just start from scratch and build something like that, but time, money, skill, tools, money & time prevent that. Notice the emphasis on money & time.

Thanks for the pic, Mike. That trailer looks nicely done....
Reid
 

Mike S

 
 
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Adventure trailers makes a nice product. Highly recommended. They also sell AutoHome tents, so they are a customer of ours. I can tell you that you don't save anything getting a trailer built "one off". If you can do ALL the work yourself, it might be a bit cheaper. You could get a trailer comparable to mine from Mario (Adventure Trailers) for less than I paid to have mine fabbed. Just a thought.

He sells quite a few trailers (and tents).

Thanks for the kind words. I did not fab the trailer, but I did design it, and Wayne Percival (Dixon, CA) worked with me to fab it up right. He builds a number of trailers every year. Great guy.


M
 
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Lars said:
Now the more important topic... where to get those Treg style hitches for less than an arm and a leg.

http://adventuretrailers.com/accessories/Pop_Ups/MVCT16_Large.jpg
You don't. Cheap people (like myself) use the far less expensive-but-considerably-noisier version, commonly called a lunnette and pintle. Cheap people who are bothered by the clunking supplement the setup with $0.99 ear plugs... :D
 

Mike S

 
 
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cruisermantis said:
You don't. Cheap people (like myself) use the far less expensive-but-considerably-noisier version, commonly called a lunnette and pintle. Cheap people who are bothered by the clunking supplement the setup with $0.99 ear plugs... :D
Actually, the only time that the pintle hitch makes noise is when manouvering at low speed. On the highway, I never notice any noise from the hitch. I really like the pintle hitch - it's pretty much bomb proof if set up with REALLY sturdy anchoring and bolts. Ask me how I know...

Mike S
 

desertdude

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Snook - on this site welded up a chunk o steel on his hitch to tighten up the slack on the pindel so it tows quiet. maybe he will see this thread and send in a photo
 

kcsmithson

 
 
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I think the lid turned out pretty good. I have not had a chance to work on the hinge. I hope to get a chance to spend time on it tomorrow.

Chad
 
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kcsmithson said:
I think the lid turned out pretty good. I have not had a chance to work on the hinge. I hope to get a chance to spend time on it tomorrow.

Chad
The lid looks great! Very professional. I've seen several lids and other metal things that have that "X" bent into them, like yours appears to. You know, the slight angle coming from all corners to meet in the center, presumably for rigidity.

So what I want to know is, how does one go about creating that? Is it accomplished by some sort of "press", or is it something that a shadetree guy like me can do?

Thanks
Reid
 

kcsmithson

 
 
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It was done with a brake press. I have no idea how it could be accomplished without it. But with it, a lid like this can be fabbed pretty quick.

Inside, there are two lengths of angle iron welded like in Henry's at the top of the thread. My brother weighs about 225 lbs. He climbed on top and walked around with no problems at all.

Chad


cruisermantis said:
The lid looks great! Very professional. I've seen several lids and other metal things that have that "X" bent into them, like yours appears to. You know, the slight angle coming from all corners to meet in the center, presumably for rigidity.

So what I want to know is, how does one go about creating that? Is it accomplished by some sort of "press", or is it something that a shadetree guy like me can do?

Thanks
Reid
 
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desertdude said:
Snook - on this site welded up a chunk o steel on his hitch to tighten up the slack on the pindel so it tows quiet. maybe he will see this thread and send in a photo
I welded two pieces, 1 1/4" by 1 1/4" angles and 3/8" plate into this chunk o steel to fill in the gap. Not only it helps cut down the "vertical" movement on the washboard road "ripple-effect", it also greatly reduce the "hoziontal" movement.

Cheers,
 
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kcsmithson said:
It was done with a brake press. I have no idea how it could be accomplished without it. But with it, a lid like this can be fabbed pretty quick.<snip>
Thanks. I figured it had to be a press of some sort. Nicely done....
Reid
 
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