Lx570 pogo’ing, tundra coils a solution?

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2011 lx570 w around 90k and a recent (successfully implemented) ahc fluid change and a vehicle that goes from low to high in about 24 seconds.

I noticed lately that my suspension in the rear was surprisingly rough and pogo like while passing a particular 10mph “bump” in the neighborhood.

I suspect that the addition of an Ironman bumper, winch, Wilco hitch swing, cargo carrier, and a storage area laden with a moderate amount of tools and recovery gear is putting me outside the lx570 suspension envelope.

I’ve been researching a way to solve this without ruining the ride, doing unnecessary labor, or making unnecessary purchases.

I assume I needed to augment my springs somehow.

What I notice is that when I hit that bump in low, it’s worse. Neutral it’s moderate…and in hi the bump doesn’t result in any pogo’ing. It feels normal.

I’m not an engineer so I don’t know what the long term solution is. I think the short term solution is a mild sensor lift to basically “add” more pressure to my suspension…this changes some of the geometry for how the vehicle will handle, however, and won’t “improve” safety.

Long term I think a set of terrain tamer coils might work in the rear. In the front I am not sure of a coil that has a slightly uprated capacity…and I don’t quite understand the trick with a coil spacer. I don’t see how a spacer adds to my vehicles ability to handle a load…to me it seems like adding a front suspension spacer would, in essence, make my truck’s front ahc shock “feel” as though it was in low…being that the spacer would place more of the trucks weight on the coils the same way it does when the car is placed in low…and in low is when the pogo’ing is the worst.

I’ve looked through a lot of the threads and there’s some indication that the coils from nestle in Germany (whatever that is) are used in armored vehicles.

Does anyone know whether some version of tundra coils might work? Like from a tundra with the 4.0 or something? Or the lc200 with a 4.0? Ideally I’d like a terrain tamer type uprated/augmented coil for the front…or something close to it.
 
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Very generally speaking, springs for ride height, shocks for ride quality. In your situation you probably need both.
 
If you dig through the various AHC threads you will see some workarounds to handle additional weight. I don't think a sensor lift specifically will help your issue, but rear spacers or airbags will take up some of the necessary hydraulic pressure needed to properly handle your rear weight.

There are also some members who handle a metric shart-ton of weight in the back of their LX without issue, so it could also be that your rear shocks are just worn out.

A little confused by your description. Sounds like the problem is in the rear, but you're trying to fix by buying parts for the front? There are no tundra parts that will fit the rear of your 200, at least talking about the 07-21 Tundra.
 
2011 lx570 w around 90k and a recent (successfully implemented) ahc fluid change and a vehicle that goes from low to high in about 24 seconds.

I noticed lately that my suspension in the rear was surprisingly rough and pogo like while passing a particular 10mph “bump” in the neighborhood.

I suspect that the addition of an Ironman bumper, winch, Wilco hitch swing, cargo carrier, and a storage area laden with a moderate amount of tools and recovery gear is putting me outside the lx570 suspension envelope.

I’ve been researching a way to solve this without ruining the ride, doing unnecessary labor, or making unnecessary purchases.

I assume I needed to augment my springs somehow.

What I notice is that when I hit that bump in low, it’s worse. Neutral it’s moderate…and in hi the bump doesn’t result in any pogo’ing. It feels normal.

I’m not an engineer so I don’t know what the long term solution is. I think the short term solution is a mild sensor lift to basically “add” more pressure to my suspension…this changes some of the geometry for how the vehicle will handle, however, and won’t “improve” safety.

Long term I think a set of terrain tamer coils might work in the rear. In the front I am not sure of a coil that has a slightly uprated capacity…and I don’t quite understand the trick with a coil spacer. I don’t see how a spacer adds to my vehicles ability to handle a load…to me it seems like adding a front suspension spacer would, in essence, make my truck’s front ahc shock “feel” as though it was in low…being that the spacer would place more of the trucks weight on the coils the same way it does when the car is placed in low…and in low is when the pogo’ing is the worst.

I’ve looked through a lot of the threads and there’s some indication that the coils from nestle in Germany (whatever that is) are used in armored vehicles.

Does anyone know whether some version of tundra coils might work? Like from a tundra with the 4.0 or something? Or the lc200 with a 4.0? Ideally I’d like a terrain tamer type uprated/augmented coil for the front…or something close to it.

They will likely be too stiff and almost certainly prevent you from going into low and may cause other issues.

I don’t think weight is your issue. I would suspect that maybe one or more of your shocks may need replacing.

Have you checked for leaks around your shocks?

Also, have you checked your AHC pressures?

I would find the actual cause before I started looking for a fix.

I have run much heavier than your setup for a couple of years and not experienced any issues like yours. Many people on here have.

I think pretensioning the springs is not a bad idea but I don’t think it will solve your problem.
 
They will likely be too stiff and almost certainly prevent you from going into low and may cause other issues.

I don’t think weight is your issue. I would suspect that maybe one or more of your shocks may need replacing.

Have you checked for leaks around your shocks?

Also, have you checked your AHC pressures?

I would find the actual cause before I started looking for a fix.

I have run much heavier than your setup for a couple of years and not experienced any issues like yours. Many people on here have.

I think pretensioning the springs is not a bad idea but I don’t think it will solve your problem.

And re-reading your post makes me think that it is almost certainly your shocks.

When AHC is in high mode, the hydraulics are carrying much of the load. In extra high mode in CC, it is carrying all the weight.

But in low, all of the weight is on the shocks.

So if it is worse in low and gets progressively better as you go up, then it would point to bad shocks.
 
All the dampening happens in the accumulators. You likely need accumulators.

 
All the dampening happens in the accumulators. You likely need accumulators.


He says it’s worse in L and better in N and H. Wouldn’t it be the same in all height modes if it was the globes?
 
All the dampening happens in the accumulators. You likely need accumulators.

Purely in the interest of people having good info, there are other important elements of the AHC system that more directly control damping. But yes the accumulators/globes are a very important part of the whole system functioning correctly.
 
The globes and the shocks are extensions of each other. Other than possibly leaky seals, there is nothing in the shocks to wear out. All of the compressibility is in the globes.

With that said, I’m having trouble reasoning what the OPs problem is.
 
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He says it’s worse in L and better in N and H. Wouldn’t it be the same in all height modes if it was the globes?
I’ll tag in an expert here but I believe that the big low pressure accumulators are used in all heights and the 5th high pressure one is only used in High.
 
I suspect that the addition of an Ironman bumper, winch, Wilco hitch swing, cargo carrier, and a storage area laden with a moderate amount of tools and recovery gear is putting me outside the lx570 suspension envelope.

I’m heavier than this and truck rides excellent. Does the cargo carrier stick out past the truck? @radman had this issue and it was just because of cantilever - weight way out behind the axle.
 
When in L the truck should be riding almost completely on the springs. So it would make sense that ride is not good in low. The truck isnt designed to be driven in low, that’s why it raises up at 5-7mph.
 
I’ll tag in an expert here but I believe that the big low pressure accumulators are used in all heights and the 5th high pressure one is only used in High.
The 5th accumulator is only used when raising up the truck. It’s there to help the AHC pump and speed up the raising process.

The front axle has a second “spring” that the truck activates in turns and while braking to stiffen up the front suspension. I saw a document about the 300 series AHC, and all 4 corners get the secondary spring.
 
Something's not quite adding up but let's work through this.

Low is strictly an access mode. It provides little damping as the car sits directly on the physical springs. AHC hydraulic pressure is minimal and can't influence or provide damping in this mode. So this is expected. (looks like @lx200inAR already commented on this).

The difference you're seeing in Normal vs High is more than I would expect. The system is calibrated to know that in high, that AHC provides more influence and adjust dampers as such. The system behaving well in high tells me that the system is working.

Which leads us to why Normal feels as such? Or if the feel is subjective and is working just fine? What's your impressions of Normal height and sports damper setting?

I think if you look into @lx200inAR work with the AHC dashboard, it may give you more insight into what's going on?

If there's something to try, and this may be counterintuitive, but I would say to do a mild sensor lift. This should bias more AHC system pressure and that may provide incrementally more damping at normal heights.

 
If you dig through the various AHC threads you will see some workarounds to handle additional weight. I don't think a sensor lift specifically will help your issue, but rear spacers or airbags will take up some of the necessary hydraulic pressure needed to properly handle your rear weight.

There are also some members who handle a metric shart-ton of weight in the back of their LX without issue, so it could also be that your rear shocks are just worn out.

A little confused by your description. Sounds like the problem is in the rear, but you're trying to fix by buying parts for the front? There are no tundra parts that will fit the rear of your 200, at least talking about the 07-21 Tundra.
In the rear I can use terrain tamer.
I think a lot of guys here do sensor lifts…which alleviates some of the problems they might otherwise have with being overweight…sensor lift places more strain on the hydraulics…which have flexibility to handle excess weight.
My understanding is that by adding a spacer I place more strain on the coils…which already in the rear of my vehicle appear to be beyond their max, hence the pogo’ing.

My main question is whether there is some tundra front coil that would be slightly stronger than the ahc oem one…yet slightly weaker than a land cruiser coil…I expect with 200+ lbs of bumper are also pushing the front coils beyond their limit as well. I’d like to get it sprung back near oem.

Or perhaps if someone could explain how putting a spacer on…and transferring weight to an already overloaded coil…will somehow help. Im not an engineer so I don’t know how this stuff works.
 
They will likely be too stiff and almost certainly prevent you from going into low and may cause other issues.

I don’t think weight is your issue. I would suspect that maybe one or more of your shocks may need replacing.

Have you checked for leaks around your shocks?

Also, have you checked your AHC pressures?

I would find the actual cause before I started looking for a fix.

I have run much heavier than your setup for a couple of years and not experienced any issues like yours. Many people on here have.

I think pretensioning the springs is not a bad idea but I don’t think it will solve your problem.
Did you have a sensor lift while running excess weight? Because your hydraulic suspension has quite a lot of flexibility in handling weight…by lifting your car with them, you’re, essentially, stiffening up your ride by taking some pressure off your coils and adding a bit via the hydraulics.

My issue completely goes away when I have a “sensor lift” and gets extremely bad when I go into low. At neutral it’s only noticeable when going over speed bumps.

Also, there are no leaks in the system and it rises itself from low to hi in 24 seconds…which I think is faster than what’s expected by the manufacturer…

Is anyone running a heavier rig without a sensor I lift other than me? You guys might all be utilizing the hydraulics to get, in essence, a stiffer suspension to handle the excess weight.
 
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Something's not quite adding up but let's work through this.

Low is strictly an access mode. It provides little damping as the car sits directly on the physical springs. AHC hydraulic pressure is minimal and can't influence or provide damping in this mode. So this is expected. (looks like @lx200inAR already commented on this).

The difference you're seeing in Normal vs High is more than I would expect. The system is calibrated to know that in high, that AHC provides more influence and adjust dampers as such. The system behaving well in high tells me that the system is working.

Which leads us to why Normal feels as such? Or if the feel is subjective and is working just fine? What's your impressions of Normal height and sports damper setting?

I think if you look into @lx200inAR work with the AHC dashboard, it may give you more insight into what's going on?

If there's something to try, and this may be counterintuitive, but I would say to do a mild sensor lift. This should bias more AHC system pressure and that may provide incrementally more damping at normal heights.

I think a mild sensor lift would fix the pogo’ing that happens when going over speed bumps.

And, barring the availability of a slightly stiffer front coil, that may be the only solution…ideally I’d like a set of terrain tamers for the rear and for the front.

I think you had a list of spring rates for the various front coils available to us.

Did you ever figure out what the front coil’s spring rate was?
 
I’m heavier than this and truck rides excellent. Does the cargo carrier stick out past the truck? @radman had this issue and it was just because of cantilever - weight way out behind the axle.
Yes, the carrier end is about 2 feet from the tailgate. Most of the weight is right up against the bumper though.

Your rig is likely as heavy as mine and it rides well…but do you have a sensor lift? When I’m in high mode mine is a stiffer ride and doesn’t pogo.

03FFB0CD-F479-4DEB-8850-ABE408F74920.jpeg
 
Yes, the carrier end is about 2 feet from the tailgate. Most of the weight is right up against the bumper though.

Your rig is likely as heavy as mine and it rides well…but do you have a sensor lift? When I’m in high mode mine is a stiffer ride and doesn’t pogo.

View attachment 2901969

heavier 😛



329BDCDB-BAF9-4291-83AC-39478C6AFC3B.jpeg
CF77F1A5-DB94-4963-BD5B-245A01B16AB4.jpeg


I don’t have a sensor lift in rear. My truck rode horrible in all heights until I replaced the accumulators.
 
I’m In the replacing globes camp. This is going beyond what we know and into speculation, but if you had weak globes and lifted the truck by adding more pressure to the system to lift height, you would be also increasing the pressure on the globes therefore giving them a chance to work in their new threshold.

The reason adding spacers to the springs works is because the spring rate isn’t linear on AHC springs. If your starting point is at a different preload (eg adding a spacer), then you have effectively created a new spring with a higher spring rate.
 

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