LX Owners = BMW owners? (1 Viewer)

[jLB]

I think in the case of the LX, most the new owners maintain it phenomenally. It's odd for a 1-owner LX to be anything other than pristine and pampered by the Lexus dealer.

While there might be some truth in this, for those original owners that kept their LX470 maybe 10 years or less. After about 10 years (2016), I started getting the impression that my local Lexus dealer, wasn't real interested in doing much of the work on my older LX470. So, I shifted most of my work to the local independent that also took care of my son's 100 series Land Cruiser. Maybe the automatic sales guy intervention, that Lexus tried to schedule on every service trip, had something to do with creating this impression, or the "You're due for another timing belt change", even though we'd done one less than 20k/2years ago due to a weeping water pump. Prior to that, my vehicle made its regular trips to the Lexus dealer every 5000mi. The 21 year old, one owner, 1999 LX470, that I picked up last year, had a similar service history. Regular 5000mi visits to the dealer for the first 10-12 years, then shifted to a local independent that specialized in these vehicles.

The Lexus "brush off" wasn't quite as bad, as the 1989 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am that I had from 1989-2009 (30k mi when I sold it), where the dealer flat out said "They only made ~1500 of these, nobody here has even seen one of these before, much less received training on them, the GNX based engine is like nothing else Pontiac sold, and we're terrified that we're going to break something that we can't replace, please don't bring it back here ever again". I had similar treatment on a 1969 Camaro Z28 in ~1979, at the Chevrolet dealership, after they tried to explain to me that I had to have a 307ci or 305ci engine, because a 302ci engine is a Ford engine.

 

[ramangain]

I had similar treatment on a 1969 Camaro Z28 in ~1979, at the Chevrolet dealership, after they tried to explain to me that I had to have a 307ci or 305ci engine, because a 302ci engine is a Ford engine.

Do you have Methuselah DNA perhaps?

 

[jLB]

Do you have Methuselah DNA perhaps?

Not that I'm aware of, the 1969 Z28 was one of my first vehicles, bought used in the later 70s, when it was just an oddball 9 year old car, with no AC. As a high school student, looking cool, and a high revving small block Chevy was much more important than cool air.

I have noticed that as I approach retirement age, I may have gotten a little less tolerant, and maybe a bit more grumpy/curmudgeonly.

 

[Jcreme]

I've had my LX for about 3 months now. Honestly, I really wanted a land cruiser because, well its a LAND CRUISER. My ex-wife relieved me of my '93 FZJ80, so I felt I was a legit cruiser guy and I cringed at the "luxury" and the gold badges and foo-foo'ness of it all. But as I learned more, I was really interested in AHC. I'm sensitive to how the dynamics of a vehicle change when (and how) you load it, and I was really interested in a self-leveling system. I still wanted my truck to say TOYOTA on the front and LAND CRUISER on the back, but the price was right, the time was right, and it was in great condition so went for it.

Having scoffed at Lexus for years and years (and years) I am now genuinely impressed. And I absolutely LOVE AHC. It's brilliant! It's magic! And it's ability to UN-dampen the suspension to give that limousine ride, works off-load too, allowing it to let the suspension move freely as needed. Automatically! Anyway, wow.. I'm just babbling.. I like it. The POINT is that this leaves me wondering the same thing almost every time I drive it. And I keep coming around to the same conclusion: car stuff can be hard to figure out and folks default to groupthink/superstition provided on the internet.

To specifically answer your question: is there a link between BMW owners and Lexus owners on taking off great factory parts/systems and replacing them with worse stuff? Yeah, I've thought about this a lot too (I'm on my 5th BMW). I think the link between Lexus and BMW is this: both brands are on the inexpensive end of the high-end car market. This puts them in the hands of second and third owners that have never had a car that was designed and built with real integrity to it's purpose and performance. And we've all been conditioned that ANYTHING available from the aftermarket (especially with a #becauseRacecar or #becauseOverland brand) is better than stock.

Incorrectly low expectations from factory design + #becauseoverland + lack of technical understanding = AHC Sucks! Remove it immediately.

AND I just want to say this again: any cost of maintaining AHC is well worth it. And if I was looking to put on 37's, I'd figure out a way to keep it. Brilliant system.

Funny story: I had a shop replace the clutch on my 2003 BMW M3. He said "since I was in there" he'd recommend that I "upgrade" my clutch to #becauseRacecar clutch. Me: "I need to upgrade a clutch that lasted 186k miles? With thousands of track miles? That still looks like it has 30% life left?"

 

[tincan45]

Real Land Cruisers never came with AHC.

This 2011 looks pretty real.

 

[Mojayjayjay]

Whatever rubber manufacturer they use should be shot, bushings degrade in record time, hoses collapse, door/hatch seals leak, gaskets shrink, plastic cracks, and the electronics just come and go as they f***ing please. Don't get me wrong, I love driving my 135i M Sport, but from a longevity and reliability standpoint it shouldn't even be able to legally be sold to anyone that doesn't also own a Toyota or Honda to get around.

Oh and get this, BMW says that, on a car with a 12k OCI, losing a quart every 1500mi is normal. I can't tell if mine burns or leaks more of its oil anymore, and frankly since its a fast runabout I don't really care either. But if it was your daily, that figure would really be concerning.... especially on a car with no dipstick haha

Oh don't even get me started. I have an n54 that's had a misfire for 4 years at idle. Myself and 2 different dealers cant figure it out. They said it "may" be the injectors (again) and it would be $3700.00....after they had already said it needed walnut blast, then valve cover gasket, then valve cover, then coils, then hpfp (all of which I did). And the car just rolled over 60k. It's actually been at the dealership since Monday for a "diagnosis." I never want a vehicle I can't work on myself. Despite all of the tools I already have, you can't do anything without thousands of dollars of specialty tools or software to calibrate and recalibrate things. I'll never own a bmw again unless it's an e30 or older.

 

[Speedytech7]

Oh don't even get me started. I have an n54 that's had a misfire for 4 years at idle. Myself and 2 different dealers cant figure it out. They said it "may" be the injectors (again) and it would be $3700.00....after they had already said it needed walnut blast, then valve cover gasket, then valve cover, then coils, then hpfp (all of which I did). And the car just rolled over 60k. It's actually been at the dealership since Monday for a "diagnosis." I never want a vehicle I can't work on myself. Despite all of the tools I already have, you can't do anything without thousands of dollars of specialty tools or software to calibrate and recalibrate things. I'll never own a bmw again unless it's an e30 or older.

Your experience and that of countless others is why I went toward a N55. A lot of niggling things were worked out. Injectors being a huge one, OEM injectors for my N55 are $85 a piece and can be changed without matching indexes. No wastegate rattle to speak of. Double vanos and valvetronic is easily serviced on top of the engine. PCV system was redesigned to avoid losing tons of oil. I came to terms with not having the same HP potential as a N54, 400hp is good enough. I'm pretty deep in on specialty tools and programming equip, but most of it I already had. Been tuning other people's BMWs and coding things for a while as a side gig. Mine has 123k on it now and its a 2011, my complaint is mostly with non essential electronics. My TPMS is broke (I deleted it from the computer), my adaptive lights broke, front shock absorber are toast, so are bushings. For how spendy it is, I just feel this s*** should've lasted longer. But that said it doesn't take so much effort for me to work on it either. But certainly not as easy as working on Yota stuff.

 

[Mojayjayjay]

Your experience and that of countless others is why I went toward a N55. A lot of niggling things were worked out. Injectors being a huge one, OEM injectors for my N55 are $85 a piece and can be changed without matching indexes. No wastegate rattle to speak of. Double vanos and valvetronic is easily serviced on top of the engine. PCV system was redesigned to avoid losing tons of oil. I came to terms with not having the same HP potential as a N54, 400hp is good enough. I'm pretty deep in on specialty tools and programming equip, but most of it I already had. Been tuning other people's BMWs and coding things for a while as a side gig. Mine has 123k on it now and its a 2011, my complaint is mostly with non essential electronics. My TPMS is broke (I deleted it from the computer), my adaptive lights broke, front shock absorber are toast, so are bushings. For how spendy it is, I just feel this s*** should've lasted longer. But that said it doesn't take so much effort for me to work on it either. But certainly not as easy as working on Yota stuff.

I can agree. I do wish Id of gone n55. When I got mine there was a lot of aftermarket stuff out surrounding the n54. I'll likely be selling it soon. It's a really fun to drive car, but it certainly is fickle. I'm hoping to sell it, and get into an e30, something I can actually work on myself. I live in a relatively small town, so specialty shops or any "local gurus" are few and far between.

 

[Speedytech7]

I can agree. I do wish Id of gone n55. When I got mine there was a lot of aftermarket stuff out surrounding the n54. I'll likely be selling it soon. It's a really fun to drive car, but it certainly is fickle. I'm hoping to sell it, and get into an e30, something I can actually work on myself. I live in a relatively small town, so specialty shops or any "local gurus" are few and far between.

I don't know where you reside but a friend of mine is selling a manual swapped E30 with limited slip.

 

[ramangain]

front shock absorber are toast, so are bushings.

Shocking! How long do the OEM bushings last on that chassis? My E60 M5 ate up front control arm bushings every 30k.

 

[FxFormat]

I’d like to get back into a bmw, would consider a B58, lots of tuning potential and that engine is stout. I wanted to replace my SL with an M4 but I hear cases of the crank hub pulley failure and that scares me a little.

maybe something like a 440Xi would be fun to mod for big power

 

[Mojayjayjay]

I don't know where you reside but a friend of mine is selling a manual swapped E30 with limited slip.

I appreciate the heads up, and I'd possibly be interested in a trade, but I'm really trying to get my cousin's. He had a gorgeous white IS that we drove 9 hrs to get a couple of years back. He passed away in December, and if his family ever decides to part with it, I'm really hoping to get it, as it would be a lot to me.

I’d like to get back into a bmw, would consider a B58, lots of tuning potential and that engine is stout. I wanted to replace my SL with an M4 but I hear cases of the crank hub pulley failure and that scares me a little.

maybe something like a 440Xi would be fun to mod for big power

The b58s do seem to be pretty stout, stout enough for the new supra apparently. My issue is that they initially talked very highly of the n54 platform as well, then as a few years went by, all of the weaknesses started to show. I mean, it took them 13 revisions of the injectors to get them correct (ish), not to mention the wastegate rattle, hpfp issues and recalls, belts being chewed up by the engine, etc etc. It just kind of put a sour taste in my mouth with BMW, not to mention the way they handled it after the fact. It also seems that on the newer models, manufacturers and dealerships are increasingly going above and beyond to make sure you have to bring your car to them for any minor issue to prevent you from doing any diy. I guess Ivr just become stuck the old, stubborn mentality of "they just don't make them like they use to."

 

[ramangain]

My issue is that they initially talked very highly of the n54 platform as well, then as a few years went by, all of the weaknesses started to show. I mean, it took them 13 revisions of the injectors to get them correct (ish), not to mention the wastegate rattle, hpfp issues and recalls, belts being chewed up by the engine, etc etc. It just kind of put a sour taste in my mouth with BMW, not to mention the way they handled it after the fact.

The N54 has issues, but none as catastrophic as the S54, S85, and S65 with rod bearings which grenade the whole motor when they fail. Look up the story of the guy whose S85 motor grenaded and was replaced under a CarMax warranty for around $27k (the owner only had to pay the deductible). Now THAT would be a bad day without the extended warranty.

BMW makes fun toys, some exhilarating, but they don't make long-term reliable vehicles.

 

[hoser]

Have owned an N54 535i since new. Now almost 200k! All OE repair parts. I'm glutton for punishment! Been thinking about replacing it with a '17-'18 640i Gran Coupe.

 

[ramangain]

Have owned an N54 535i since new. Now almost 200k! All OE repair parts. I'm glutton for punishment! Been thinking about replacing it with a '17-'18 640i Gran Coupe.

I don't know whether to congratulate or pity you.

 

[Speedytech7]

Shocking! How long do the OEM bushings last on that chassis? My E60 M5 ate up front control arm bushings every 30k.

The E82 is decent I guess, a lot of our suspension on the sport models are just M3 parts, so way fewer of those stupid fluid bushings that so love to fail. But I still need a new control arm in the front and one of my rear multilink bars has a couple bad bushings I'm fairly sure. I'm at 123k so it's not unexpected I guess. Bit at 10 years old rubber certainly wears worse on this car than my thoroughly used 28 year old LC.

 

[Beauski100]

Question for the BMW guys, which BMW forum do you prefer? Is there one that is as easy to use and as helpful as Mud? Looking at purchasing my co-worker's 07 e-90 that has been neglected and left in her driveway for over 1 year. If I am foolish enough to buy it off her, I will need access to all the help I can get. @tugboatmike @RND1

 

[Roosevelt T]

Gents,

Honest question and probably also a thread for me to vent my frustration (LOL - in a good way really).
I have been looking for an LX 470. Year and mileage not really a concern, assuming the vehicle was properly maintained and has no major rust. I am not expecting a garage queen or anything as I do understand that a 20+ year old vehicle will have wear and tear. Even in the undercarriage. But of course one thing is looking at a vehicle that spent its whole life in upstate NY versus one from Phoenix, AZ. I get that.
My frustration is simple: almost all cars I have found for sale (i.e. Cars.com, Autotrader.com) in a reasonable condition, had the damn AHC removed.

That leads me to my Lexus owner/BMW owner comparison.

I have a little fleet at home with several different vehicles, from a Mini Cooper to a Lamborghini Gallardo. Out of all these, my favourite by far and the one I would keep if I had to sell all other cars, would be my 1999 BMW 750iL. A V12 beast with all the bells and whistles you can think of in a modern car. Built-in navigation, phone, Bi-Xenon lights, heated seats in the front and rear, etc. It is all there. In damn 1999.
As the LX 470, the car has front EDC shocks and SLS in the back (hydraulic). Guess what the second or third owners on these vehicles remove first? The DAMN SLS.

And that pisses me off in ways you cannot even imagine. The best thing on the car is the V12 AND the smoothness of that suspension, what I assume the AHC gives you. Certainly I get why some people remove the AHC, if definitely using the car mostly for off-roading with big 35" tires. Sure,
Now the BMW is not an off-road vehicle so why they remove it? Because they are damn freaking CHEAP owners. Instead of properly maintaining the car and keeping it 100% functional as per the factory build, they start butchering such amazing cars just to save USD 1800 (what a full rebuild on all four corners cost you).
All the LX 470s I was looking at were all mall crawlers for sure with very little, if any, off-roading done. That leads me to think the only reason these owners removed the damn AHC was indeed to save cost (what means being CHEAP like the BMW owners).

And that leads me to think, if someone is completely removing a system where all four globes can be bought for USD 1000 (again being cheap) what else did they want to save money on, maintenance wise? If the car is maintained at Lexus, I am pretty sure they would never put in the wrong fluid for the AHC system (what I have heard it was the case with several cars not maintained at Lexus - and yes, I do get the reason why people avoid the 'stealership' for maintenance).

What do you guys think? Are most second/third Lexus owners really like that, falling into the cheap category and the main reason behind AHC being deleted from all these?

And by the way if anyone has a lead to a vehicle that meets the requirements I mentioned let me know.

Man I cant believe I missed this thread. As a long time BMW hobbyist, I can tell you one of the upsides to owning them is the large amount of aftermarket support and DIY hobbyist that are associated with the brand. Go over to club lexus and look for DIY's... its a ghost town.

BTW, all due respect - but that M73 is not a well respected BMW engine, for many reasons, and electronic dampers from that era blow, hence why everyone takes them out. I get it, we all like what we like, and that is your preference - but to rage about it on a Land Cruiser forum, nonetheless?

Back when the Supra was released, there was a lot more detail about what Toyota did to the B58 to improve reliability and durability, but I can't seem to find it now. I recall the BMW engineers being shocked at the level of reliability and durability testing Toyota did to that motor to meet their standard. While I love the inline 6, if Toyota dropped the 3.5L tt V6 from the LS into the Supra and a 6sp manual, I'd be buying one.

This is total horse s***, LOL.

The B58 moved to a close deck and mechanical water pump because BMW had already done that on the S55, to strengthen the block and alleviate issues with the electric pump.

The n54, n55, s55, etc all make tons of power on their stock bottom end - these changes had nothing to do with Toyota and were not so tuners could make more power in a rebranded Z4... er, I mean a "Supra".

 

[Roosevelt T]

Question for the BMW guys, which BMW forum do you prefer? Is there one that is as easy to use and as helpful as Mud? Looking at purchasing my co-worker's 07 e-90 that has been neglected and left in her driveway for over 1 year. If I am foolish enough to buy it off her, I will need access to all the help I can get. @tugboatmike @RND1

M3 Post is best for that generation of vehicles.

 

[ramangain]

Question for the BMW guys, which BMW forum do you prefer? Is there one that is as easy to use and as helpful as Mud? Looking at purchasing my co-worker's 07 e-90 that has been neglected and left in her driveway for over 1 year. If I am foolish enough to buy it off her, I will need access to all the help I can get. @tugboatmike @RND1

Buy the $250 Schwaben diagnostic tool and get button cover protectors. Best to immediately bond with the tool (perhaps some tender cuddling and caressing) since you'll be using it often and it will save you $$$$ in the long run.