Lost my transmission today (1 Viewer)

[mikgrail3]

I've got an ex-Toyota mechanic coming to look at it this week. He'll help me diagnose the issue and tell me if it can be rebuilt or not. Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I'll update once we look at it further.

 

[lvanst]

I'm with Tony. Let Murf solve this for you. Camelback is very fair and honest, AND you get a club discount...

 

[mikgrail3]

Update: found out that my transfer case drain plug wasn't tight. Apparently I let the damn thing run dry. There was no indication of leaking anywhere on my driveway, so I thought all was well. Teaches me to check the fluids a little more often.

I took the transfer case off yesterday and when I spin the input by hand the drive shaft outputs don't move. When I spin one of the drive shaft outputs the other moves like normal. Looks like the failure happened between the input and the front and rear gears. I found a used one with 102,000 miles on it that I'll be getting and putting it on.

 

[Tools R Us]

Update: found out that my transfer case drain plug wasn't tight. Apparently I let the damn thing run dry. There was no indication of leaking anywhere on my driveway, so I thought all was well. Teaches me to check the fluids a little more often.

I took the transfer case off yesterday and when I spin the input by hand the drive shaft outputs don't move. When I spin one of the drive shaft outputs the other moves like normal. Looks like the failure happened between the input and the front and rear gears. I found a used one with 102,000 miles on it that I'll be getting and putting it on.

Wow, transfers are proven to be very reliable, rare failure. Was it empty, was the drain plug loose or gone? They don't hold that much fluid, but enough to make a huge mess if it came out relatively quickly. Did you check the trans fluid, how did it look, level correct, high/low?

If you want to check the carnage, the rear cover comes off pretty easy. Would make good carnage pix?

 

[mikgrail3]

Wow, transfers are proven to be very reliable, rare failure. Was it empty, was the drain plug loose or gone? They don't hold that much fluid, but enough to make a huge mess if it came out relatively quickly. Did you check the trans fluid, how did it look, level correct, high/low?

If you want to check the carnage, the rear cover comes off pretty easy. Would make good carnage pix?

I think we can chalk it up to them still being very reliable. User error, can't blame Toyota. The plug was pretty loose. May have backed off enough to slowly seep away while we were camping over the weekend and driving over the forest roads. There wasn't a mess under the truck anywhere that I could see. But I did park in different spots in the dirt and grass over the weekend.

I may take the cover off to see what's in there, but I never heard any metal grinding or flying around in there when it went. It was a pretty quiet death, just a loud moaning as it went.

The trans fluid was pretty good. Still red and transparent, level was good, and didn't smell too bad either. The trans output shaft looked good, too. That was my biggest worry, once I knew the case was gone. I was hoping the shaft's spline weren't stripped off making me need a tranmission, too.

 

[inkpot]

I thought those transfer cases were all gear drive, no chain to fail. When gears die, it is usually pretty noisy. John

 

[Tools R Us]

...
I may take the cover off to see what's in there, but I never heard any metal grinding or flying around in there when it went. It was a pretty quiet death, just a loud moaning as it went.
...

I thought those transfer cases were all gear drive, no chain to fail. When gears die, it is usually pretty noisy. John

Yes, they are gear driven and usually are pretty exciting (crunchy/loud) when they go. Would be interesting to do an autopsy to see what failed?

 

[azTony]

Autopsy!! Autopsy!! Autopsy!!

 

[mikgrail3]

Now I have to open it up and take some pictures. I was surprised not to hear any crunchy noises either. Hopefully, it will come apart and go back together fairly quickly, I'm using it as a core when I get the "new" one.

 

[Tools R Us]

...
The trans fluid was pretty good. Still red and transparent, level was good, and didn't smell too bad either. The trans output shaft looked good, too. That was my biggest worry, once I knew the case was gone. I was hoping the shaft's spline weren't stripped off making me need a tranmission, too.

Some of the earlier rigs can have the seal between the transfer and trans fail and move fluid from one to the other. IIRC, the FZJ80 setup solved this problem, has a seal in each and a vented air space between, so if the seal(s) leak, the fluid hits the ground. Not sure how the FJ80 is setup, but IIRC this has happened on FJ62's?

Just a loose drain plug would leak slowly, I would expect it to fall out long before most/all of the fluid leaked out? The transfer only holds ~3qt(?), doesn't sound like much, but will make a HUGE mess if it leaked out relatively quickly. In my experience, oil spreads out big time, that kind of leak usually is all over the bottom of the rig, dots, spray all over the back door, etc?

 

[mikgrail3]

Some of the earlier rigs can have the seal between the transfer and trans fail and move fluid from one to the other. IIRC, the FZJ80 setup solved this problem, has a seal in each and a vented air space between, so if the seal(s) leak, the fluid hits the ground. Not sure how the FJ80 is setup, but IIRC this has happened on FJ62's?

Just a loose drain plug would leak slowly, I would expect it to fall out long before most/all of the fluid leaked out? The transfer only holds ~3qt(?), doesn't sound like much, but will make a HUGE mess if it leaked out relatively quickly. In my experience, oil spreads out big time, that kind of leak usually is all over the bottom of the rig, dots, spray all over the back door, etc?

There is a vented air space in between on my FJ80 as well. There was dirt in there that we cleaned out and a few venting holes around the edges, no gasket between the two. It was dry in there.

I thought I read somewhere that the fluid capacity was only 1.4qt. I think it was in my FSM? Not much fluid came out when I took out the plug, but the truck is on a downward slope in the driveway right now. There could be more fluid in there that hasn't come out yet. I'll see how much more comes out before I open it up.

The skid had some thick oily dirt on it, top and bottom. No oil on my rear window or undercarriage. I wonder if the slope of my driveway kept the leak at bay at home and it dripped while driving and parked on a flat surfaces. I'll never know about that. But I will be checking the plug more routinely now.

 

[inkpot]

Yes, they are gear driven and usually are pretty exciting (crunchy/loud) when they go. Would be interesting to do an autopsy to see what failed?

I'm certainly no expert in transfercases, but I do have a LOT of experience with gear box failures. Either the teeth are missing on 1 or more gears, or the bearings have failed to the point that the teeth no longer engage. Suppose you could have sheared an input shaft. Sounds to me like your transfer is stuck in Neutral, for whatever reason. John

 

[Living in the Past]

Curious you checked the transmission tailshaft without pulling the split case apart? My split case has leaked since I bought it. Just figured it going to be a major pain. Can you pull the two apart without spliting the case.

 

[azTony]

Transfer case for sale $250

https://forum.ih8mud.com/sale-parts/488376-94-80-series-axles-1fz-trans-t-case-loomis-ca.html

 

[mikgrail3]

Alright, here's coroner's report (picture version)...







Not recommended for those who can't handle gore or are squeamish at the sight of carnage...




Input shaft gear looks like plastic the way it just melted and shaved down. That explains the really loud moaning and vibration sound I heard without the sound of gears exploding and getting chewed up.

 

[mikgrail3]

Transfer case for sale $250

https://forum.ih8mud.com/sale-parts/488376-94-80-series-axles-1fz-trans-t-case-loomis-ca.html

Thanks, Tony. I found one locally with only 102,000 miles for about the same that this one would cost shipped. I'm going to go pick it up tomorrow.

 

[mikgrail3]

I'm certainly no expert in transfercases, but I do have a LOT of experience with gear box failures. Either the teeth are missing on 1 or more gears, or the bearings have failed to the point that the teeth no longer engage. Suppose you could have sheared an input shaft. Sounds to me like your transfer is stuck in Neutral, for whatever reason. John

Looks like missing teeth? Guess number one, right on. That's where I was leaning, too. The way the input shaft was turning freely, but not engaging the drive shaft outputs and the drive shaft outputs responding when turned themselves.

 

[azTony]

I did not realize the teeth were plastic. That fluid level better be checked frequently

 

[Living in the Past]

Transfer case for sale $250

https://forum.ih8mud.com/sale-parts/488376-94-80-series-axles-1fz-trans-t-case-loomis-ca.html

I do believe the transfer case needed would have to be from a 91/92 FJ80. Starting in 93 the engine, transmission and transfer case changed. Maybe a FJ62 case would work to go to part time.

Still curious are you able to pull the transmission and tranfer case apart without taking the transfer apart? I wouldn't mind pulling the one out of my FJ62 and resealing it. Would be a lot easier to do than pulling both the transmission and transfer together.

 

[Living in the Past]

I did not realize the teeth were plastic. That fluid level better be checked frequently

Looks like plastic the way they melted. I'm sure their are metal gears.