Long crank when warm - Issue after valley pan repair (1 Viewer)

[jmanscotch]

Final connection is the vapor/emission line. It’s a bit of a bitch to get off. It sits on the top of the tank, bias to the passenger side and looks like this.

It appears to be a squeeze and work off type connection, but I fought it for about 30 minutes before finding the identical connection on the other end of the line (at the evap canister) and after messing with that one, I determined squeezing wasn’t going to get it to come off. I have to insert a flat blade screw driver and pry out the retaining barbs and work it loose.

Here’s the connection off finally and where I inserted the screw driver on either side:

Now you’re ready to drop the tank (after having removed skid plates and tank straps of course).

I used a transmission jack, worked well except the tank sat too high to roll out form under the GX, so I had to remove the tank from the jack to get it out completely. Had 6-7 gallons of gas in the tank and it was a bit to wrestle down and back onto the jack, but doable.

Here’s an overall shot of the tank removed, shows a few of the connections better

You don’t need the special tool to remove the fuel pump mounting lid, just a large flat head screw drive and a hammer. I flip flopped opposing sides of the rim while knocking it counter clockwise and eventually it worked loose.

I did buy a new ring in case I mangled this one up (have done it before when doing fuel pumps, about $30).

 

[jmanscotch]

When installing the new fuel pump, there’s a singular alignment tab on the pump that you wanna clock it with. It also stops it from rotating while tightening the lid.

Now, reconnect the fuel lines at the pump itself and get ready to wrestle the tank back onto the transmission jack and reinstall it all.

I took a break and detailed the Lexus a bit. Overall, job took about 2.5-3 hours with some breaks and interruptions.

 

[jmanscotch]

Since the fuel pump did not fix the problem, I’m back to a singular thought: fuel injectors. The symptoms fit, but that also means the symptoms from the factory injectors carried over and match exactly with the rebuilt units. Very odd and unlikely...but possible. That said, it’d seem like I’m looking for something else, but I’m at a loss besides suspecting extreme bad luck with the rebuilt injectors (though the rebuilt injectors were likely cores returned to the rebuilder. Cores that were originally replaced for some reason, possibly leaking symptoms in the first place, so not illogical to think the rebuilder didn’t do a honest or thorough leak down test).

A new set are about a grand, which doesn’t bother me financially, as all in I’ll have a complete new cooling system, repaired valley pan, new fuel pump, new injectors and several other new parts for a grand total of $2,500 or so. That’s still cheaper than the valley pan repair and new cooling system would’ve been had I gone through a dealership/mechanic.

My main concern is do I gamble another $1,000 on injectors or chase some unknown alternative? Maybe the fuel pump ECU? Anyone have ideas on what I should circle back to, like the basics I might’ve missed? Fuel pump relay, fuse, wiring, etc? Should I get a tech stream setup to view more detailed data? Do I find a shop that can do a leak down test on the injectors? All stuff I’ve gotta sleep on I guess.

I could take off a few choice mods and trade it in, but I’d eat about $10k doing that, after only a year of ownership, which would obviously not be my top choice...but is one I’m starting to flirt with out of pure frustration.

 

[Tex68w]

Order the injectors and see what happens.

 

[jmanscotch]

I found a shop in Denver that will rebuild and ultrasonic clean my factory injectors with OE seals, leak test them at high and low temps, test resistance and function in detail and send pics and printouts of all the tests, both before and after, for $20 an injector.

I’m going to go this route as it’ll save me $800+ on the injectors-again gamble, help answer the question if the injectors were leaking down in the first place and support some local business.

 

[Acrad]

I was reading this post earlier today...

Same shop?

When to Clean or Replace fuel injectors

Please post your experiences and thoughts on the subject. I’ve been considering cleaning or even replacing all 8 fuel injectors, is this wasting time and money. I understand keeping fuel injector clean by adding a can of additive to the gas tank, now & then, is a good practice. This keeps them...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Acrad]

If it isn't the injectors... I think you might be left left with some odd immobilizer behavior or a heat soaked starter...

I would pay to see the South Main Auto guy take a look at your rig... he troubleshoots very well some ultra obscure issues

 

[jmanscotch]

I was reading this post earlier today...

Same shop?

When to Clean or Replace fuel injectors

Please post your experiences and thoughts on the subject. I’ve been considering cleaning or even replacing all 8 fuel injectors, is this wasting time and money. I understand keeping fuel injector clean by adding a can of additive to the gas tank, now & then, is a good practice. This keeps them...

forum.ih8mud.com

Yep, same shop. Thanks for that post, good to see some experiences with them.

 

[jmanscotch]

If it isn't the injectors... I think you might be left left with some odd immobilizer behavior or a heat soaked starter...

I would pay to see the South Main Auto guy take a look at your rig... he troubleshoots very well some ultra obscure issues

I wish I knew a local guy like that. If injectors get me no where new, I might just have to try harder to find a somewhat local shop that has that kinda reputation. Hell, I wouldn’t mind driving it a few states away to get someone good to look at it, make a trip out of it, but upstate NY is a bit too far.

 

[maingear]

Do a resistance check on the coil packs and spark plugs. use a temp gun to see how hot coilpacks get and use the oven when you wife is not home. get them to temp and check.

I had a LX 470 not start on me once and took toyota university class online to learn more about the model.the ignition would fire on the wrong cylinder if the key was not detected, a battery in the key fixed it.

Look at the start sequence and see what would fail when heat soaked. Like fuel vapor sucker stuck open from emmisions. There may not be such a thing, but I have not studied this particular system.

Have you checked the aussi predo forms? I can see one injector, if it was all I would suspect a signal problem.

 

[whododat]

Wow, what a headache!! Any luck yet?

 

[jmanscotch]

Wow, what a headache!! Any luck yet?

I just got a call from the injector rebuilder and they said the factory injectors were a little gunked up but passed all their leak down tests, they even did some extra tests on them to ensure they were good and they were, so that’s not hopeful that injector leak down was/is my issue.

I’ll probably go ahead and install those injectors when they get back, just a little more faith in them being flow verified/etc than the replacements I got originally.

I just got back from a road trip down to New Mexico and had a lot of time to think on the drive and one thing came to mind regarding the fuel vaporization possibility. I doubt it’s the issue, but it could be and if it is I’m going to kick myself.

There is a crossover fuel line that runs behind the intake manifold, from one fuel rail to the other, and in the middle of that ~16” span it was bolted to the intake manifold.

This one:

I unbolted it during the initial repairs and never bolted it back after any repair due to the difficulty reaching it, so that fuel line is dangling a bit back there. There’s always that chance that line is drooping and sitting on the engine block or EGR lines and is getting it hotter than it would’ve been if it was suspended up some, causing some vaporized fuel in the line.

I can’t believe I’ve glossed over that one since the repair and I hope it’s not that stupid of a fix...then again I’d be thrilled to find out it is that simple. I plan to fix that this week when I get time and see if I’m super stupid and have spent $1,500 trying to fix an issue that was simply I didn’t put a bolt back where it came from.

We’ll soon see on that one. I’d happily take that expensive lesson, if it cures my issues.

 

[r2m]

I had a LX 470 not start on me once and took toyota university class online to learn more about the model.the ignition would fire on the wrong cylinder if the key was not detected, a battery in the key fixed it.

With our push button ignition, even with a dead key fob battery, if you push the ignition button with the key fob, it will start! This is great to know if your fob battery is dead.
Personal experience, it works.

 

[jmanscotch]

Chuck, with FIS in Denver, called back today. Said he put a feeler out there to ask what might be another potential culprit in my situation, since the fuel injectors checked out so well, and he got the following advice:

- Fuel Pump Control Module (previously mentioned by a Toyota Master Tech)
- Timing chain tensioner sticking (doesn't fit IMO, would think a sticking condition would be more random or constant in nature and product some good rattles as the chain slopped around a bit, which I don't have).

I originally thought of replacing the Fuel Pump Control Module while doing the fuel pump, but opted not to with the $375 or so price tag on top of the $350 fuel pump assembly. Apparently, some techs mentioned to him that they'd recommend replacing the module when replacing the fuel pump as the issues that arise and warrant a new fuel pump can be symptoms that *could* be mimicked by a bad module as well.

Something to think on if I don't make positive ground on previously mentioned items I'll try this week.

Haven't received the injectors back just yet, but so far I've been very pleased with my experience with Chuck at Fuel Injector Specialists. Fast turn around, great communication, seemingly very knowledgeable, very reasonable prices ($20 per injector) and has just generally made me a happy customer by putting in some extra work to try to take care of a customer and not just have a fast turnover of the service.

 

[jmanscotch]

With our push button ignition, even with a dead key fob battery, if you push the ignition button with the key fob, it will start! This is great to know if your fob battery is dead.
Personal experience, it works.

Yep. I've also used my second key to start it and both sets replicate the issue consistently. What I haven't done is remove my remote start setup to see if it's causing the issue....but that's far down the list of things I'm thinking it might be.

 

[Acrad]

A few of those used relays on eBay in the $50-$75 range.

 

[jmanscotch]

A few of those used relays on eBay in the $50-$75 range.

I saw a few used modules on eBay, but would probably just buy new to avoid any potential headaches.

Just checked part numbers and cost on new it’s the Fuel Computer Assembly 89570-60180 and goes for $310 on MyLParts (with 10% off using code CL5) so not horrible if it comes to it.

 

[maingear]

go back to everything you disturbed in the initial repair. The problem started after that. look for a cracked hose, plastic barb, or line connection. rough idle is a clue. if it runs fine cold, its likely emissions or secondary system vaccum issue.

If you had a buddy help did he lean on something in the engine bay and send it out of whack? it may be hiding in another area if so, not on the intake.

i hope you solve it soon!

Justin

 

[jmanscotch]

go back to everything you disturbed in the initial repair. The problem started after that. look for a cracked hose, plastic barb, or line connection. rough idle is a clue. if it runs fine cold, its likely emissions or secondary system vaccum issue.

If you had a buddy help did he lean on something in the engine bay and send it out of whack? it may be hiding in another area if so, not on the intake.

i hope you solve it soon!

Justin

I did get back in and retraced my steps , not entirely but 75% or so. I’ve also run a smoke test on any and all systems I can get access to, though it’s possible I’m missing sections.

When I have the intake manifold off again to replace the fuel injectors, I’ll plan to go through it again and see if I can finishing double checking that last 25% or so.

Appreciate it man.

 

[Whizzer929]

While I don't have anything to contribute to solving your issue, I have to say this is one of the most well written and articulate threads I've ever read. I've enjoyed reading it and have a learned a lot, albeit at your expense. I hope you can power through and find the root cause. Just a thought, maybe find a wrecked GX that you pull parts off for troubleshooting?