- Thread starter
- #21
It was on Petit's Gap Road (fire road portion) near the Devils Marbleyard, which is below Apple Orchard Mountain.
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Local Camping Safety Concern (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter hkeller
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My two blue heelers work well to deter most any threat (bears, poeple, strays, etc.) don't need to be tethered at night so they are free to defend, and don't go anywhere other than the close vicinity... they are more worried about where I am versus where they can go... also, if I am camping and the company I have doesn't mind, I don't have a fire and use a lantern... no sense signaling the idiots as to your whereabouts...
My dog has a good threatening appearance, but doesn't bark. Also if I left him unleashed he would be off searching for tasty little animals to eat.
That's dissappointing to hear. I have been trying to talk the wife into camping and was thinking we'd go to GWNF. We will still likely go to GWNF, but it will be one more thing to worry about.
I will also be armed, as I am a LEO. But with a toddler, I can guarantee the weapon would most likely be secured in the vehicle so it wouldn't do much good in the scenario you described. I'm far more worried about my family getting hurt from my own unsecured firearm than I am from some freakshow wandering in the dark. I hope you secure your .357 from your child when you camp.
The scary thing is that that type of crime in a remote area like that doesn't sound like your typical meth/crack/heroin addict looking to steal for his next fix. ( he would have sold the gun long ago!). It sounds more like the freakiest in our society who is looking for a victim - someone who get his rocks off by seeing the fear in the face of his victim or looking to violate a woman or child. In other words, somebody who needs to have his journey to that special place in H*** hastened a bit.
I am only speculating, but that type of stuff creeps me out far more than somebody being shot in a liquor store robbery.
If it helps (probably not) that stuff is still very isolated. Think of how many positive camping posts there are in this forum from people who have camped dozens or hundreds of times without incident.
That's the problem with crime and criminals, they don't just victimize those they attack, but also the rest of us who have to deal with the fear that we could be next.
I will also be armed, as I am a LEO. But with a toddler, I can guarantee the weapon would most likely be secured in the vehicle so it wouldn't do much good in the scenario you described. I'm far more worried about my family getting hurt from my own unsecured firearm than I am from some freakshow wandering in the dark. I hope you secure your .357 from your child when you camp.
The scary thing is that that type of crime in a remote area like that doesn't sound like your typical meth/crack/heroin addict looking to steal for his next fix. ( he would have sold the gun long ago!). It sounds more like the freakiest in our society who is looking for a victim - someone who get his rocks off by seeing the fear in the face of his victim or looking to violate a woman or child. In other words, somebody who needs to have his journey to that special place in H*** hastened a bit.
I am only speculating, but that type of stuff creeps me out far more than somebody being shot in a liquor store robbery.
If it helps (probably not) that stuff is still very isolated. Think of how many positive camping posts there are in this forum from people who have camped dozens or hundreds of times without incident.
That's the problem with crime and criminals, they don't just victimize those they attack, but also the rest of us who have to deal with the fear that we could be next.
seems like the local law enforcement should start camping out with a dummy in a tent and nab this wack job. Or maybe if there aren't enough of those guys and gals to go around, maybe some lynchmob justice would be in order. Seems like it would be pretty easy to set someone like that up, especially if it has happened more than once in the area.
Sorry to hear about this.
Sorry to hear about this.
- Thread starter
- #26
Marc311 asked whether I store the gun with the little ones around. I keep it locked in a box during the day and then sleep with it in the side pocket of the tent next to me, but only after I go to bed. The kids are opposite me and my wife. When I wake in the a.m., the first thing I do is lock it back in its box in the LX. I, too, am concerned about gun safety with the kids.
Since my first post about this issue, I've had additional reason for concern. I took the wife and kids canoeing two weekends ago. It was about a 12 mile float. About half way through the float, we came across another guy in a canoe. He paddled over right next to our boat; making it difficult to paddle on that side. He was friendly as hell, but equally drunk. (Mind you, I love a drink as much as the next guy.)
He followed us the remainder of the trip trying to have unintelligble conversation with us and racing us in our canoe. We'd slow, he'd slow. We'd paddle fast, so would he. Finally, as we neared our take-out (he claimed to be going further) he insisted on helping us get the canoe out and onto our car. The SOB could barley stand. I told him nicely that we could do it ourselves about 8 times, before I final said, "Look man, we've got it. Why'd don't you head on back to the river."
Well, this SOB now wants to fight. He starts in on the "What, you better 'an me? I don't need to 'elp you, you son o bicchh. See 'at I care." He gets right up on me and gets ready to do the two finger chest gab. Finally, he says, "Hell, nuff dis" and leaves. It wasn't scary as the guy weighed like 145 lbs soaking wet, but what in the world.
I was sharing these stories with a co-worker this week. He told a similar story about camping in northern CA. About 2:00 in the a.m., he and his girlfreind awake to about thirty people downstream chanting pegan type rituals. What the heck is going on.
To keep this topic appropriate: I think, after much discussion here and elsewhere, the best thing is to camp in larger groups and bring a few good dogs to warn of and defend trouble.
Since my first post about this issue, I've had additional reason for concern. I took the wife and kids canoeing two weekends ago. It was about a 12 mile float. About half way through the float, we came across another guy in a canoe. He paddled over right next to our boat; making it difficult to paddle on that side. He was friendly as hell, but equally drunk. (Mind you, I love a drink as much as the next guy.)
He followed us the remainder of the trip trying to have unintelligble conversation with us and racing us in our canoe. We'd slow, he'd slow. We'd paddle fast, so would he. Finally, as we neared our take-out (he claimed to be going further) he insisted on helping us get the canoe out and onto our car. The SOB could barley stand. I told him nicely that we could do it ourselves about 8 times, before I final said, "Look man, we've got it. Why'd don't you head on back to the river."
Well, this SOB now wants to fight. He starts in on the "What, you better 'an me? I don't need to 'elp you, you son o bicchh. See 'at I care." He gets right up on me and gets ready to do the two finger chest gab. Finally, he says, "Hell, nuff dis" and leaves. It wasn't scary as the guy weighed like 145 lbs soaking wet, but what in the world.
I was sharing these stories with a co-worker this week. He told a similar story about camping in northern CA. About 2:00 in the a.m., he and his girlfreind awake to about thirty people downstream chanting pegan type rituals. What the heck is going on.
To keep this topic appropriate: I think, after much discussion here and elsewhere, the best thing is to camp in larger groups and bring a few good dogs to warn of and defend trouble.
Just to make you feel better, this isn't new. The same thing happened in MT while I was traveling up there. Totally random.
I simply look at it this way, these things are predominantly random acts of violence. I am not going to run scared from some s*** head that is trying to terrorize campers. If it happens again in the area then the randomness is gone and I would vacate! I refuse to live in fear especially in the forest. These freaks fead off the fear generated from thier acts. I am not going to give them the power.
BTW, kevlar bags are on sale at REI.
I simply look at it this way, these things are predominantly random acts of violence. I am not going to run scared from some s*** head that is trying to terrorize campers. If it happens again in the area then the randomness is gone and I would vacate! I refuse to live in fear especially in the forest. These freaks fead off the fear generated from thier acts. I am not going to give them the power.
BTW, kevlar bags are on sale at REI.
Most likely a one-off nut job occurence. And for those who decide to camp outside of Yogi Bear campgounds, a bouncy Beagle would give off a nice howl before the idjit got within 20 feet. You could also set up a decoy tent or sleeping bag? Baterry powered trip sensor? Or bullet proof camper? Crazy to consider!
Not an attack dog but you would never get past Sydney, my 5 yr old Lab. She is one muscular, 75lb bouncy Lab with a booming bark - in my face whenever she thinks somethings not quite right - day or night - just the way I trained her. Otherwise, I'm a yuppie from Boston
Drunk guy of any size? One fast shot into the stomach, almost ALL will bend over gasping, then knee to face or whatever you decide from there. It works.
I hate being paranoid about something happening, but I guess I'd rather be paranoid than dead. Ocala Nat Forest here in FL has at least 1 deadly incident per year where some vagrant kills a camper or two. I only went there a couple times for backcountry camping by myself, and won't do that again alone. Ocala is not remote enough I don't think. I always have my .40 with me (I don't have kids so I usually sleep with it right next to me). I haven't normally brought my dog b/c of the hassle, but I might start for safety reasons--she is a German shepard mix and barks like crazy at everything. Another good alternative for non-gun owners or people with kids is that you get a super bright flashlight, sleep with it in your hand, and you shine that in anyones eyes that opens the tent. It should give you time to react while they are momentarily stunned. This is what military and police do, it is very disorienting and of course non-lethal so you don't inadvertently shoot someone. Now I have the light and gun handy at all times.
Here's a local story from BC Canada.
Words fail me on this one.
What the hell is wrong with kids these days.
Four campers attacked by teen drunks in Golden Ears Park
Girl, 9, injured by flying glass as thugs take boots to mom's car
Matthew Ramsey, The Province
Published: Wednesday, June 20, 2007
A Surrey family's first camping trip turned into a night of terror when they were attacked by drunks wielding shovels and bear spray.
Kari Johnson, a male friend, her
14-year-old son Marco and nine-year-old daughter Kira arrived at Golden Ears Provincial Park on Friday night to find the gates to the camping area locked.
The park caretaker suggested they pull into a roadside parking area, pitch their tent and wait until morning.
Johnson and her friend bunked down in the tent. Her son and daughter went to sleep in the car.
"Within an hour of us laying down, the teenagers came cruising through the parking lot doing doughnuts," Johnson said.
Scared the drunks were going to drive into her tent or car, she called Maple Ridge RCMP who told her they wouldn't attend unless she got the licence plate number.
It was 12:15 a.m. Johnson said the scene repeated itself at 1:15, 2:30 and finally at 4:15 a.m. when Johnson, her male friend and son decided to get park staff to help.
They left Kira locked and sleeping in the car and walked about 100 metres to the park watchmen's hut. But, she said, the watchman wouldn't help because the teens were outside the park.
On their way back to the car, the teens in a Cherokee emerged from a driveway on Fern Crescent, near the park gates.
"They were going to come and do it again," Johnson said.
Still on the phone to the RCMP, she, her friend and son stood in front of the truck and told them the police were on their way.
"Within two seconds, 15 teenagers came around the corner," she said. They were carrying bear spray, crowbars, rakes and shovels.
Johnson said she told the police, "they're coming with weapons and they're going to hurt us if you don't get up here."
"They surrounded us and then some girl came at me."
Johnson said the teens blocked the road to her car and Kira, so she and her son fled back to the park hut. The mother and son left her male friend, now himself armed with a shovel, to deal with the mob. Some of the teens were able to slip past him and "total" Johnson's 2004 Honda Civic as Kira huddled inside.
"She woke up to them kicking the sides of my car," Johnson said.
Kira cowered under a blanket as the vandals booted in the bodywork and smashed in all but two of the car windows.
The little girl in the backseat was cut on the hands, feet, legs and arms by flying glass.
Johnson, meanwhile, was still screaming down the phone to get the RCMP to come and help.
"I can't even tell you how many calls I made to them," Johnson said.
She estimates it took police 30 minutes to arrive. The teens scattered once the RCMP got there.
Kira was taken to hospital by ambulance to be treated for her cuts. Johnson said Kira seems OK but was shaken up, telling her, "mom, I could have been in a wheelchair."
Johnson's car was towed away for repairs and forensics testing.
Maple Ridge RCMP confirmed they spoke to several individuals at the scene, but have yet to make any arrests.
The owners of the home on Fern Crescent where Johnson said the trouble began could not be reached for comment.
A representative of the company that manages the campgrounds at Golden Ears, Gibson Pass Resort Inc., was also not available.
Words fail me on this one.
What the hell is wrong with kids these days.
Four campers attacked by teen drunks in Golden Ears Park
Girl, 9, injured by flying glass as thugs take boots to mom's car
Matthew Ramsey, The Province
Published: Wednesday, June 20, 2007
A Surrey family's first camping trip turned into a night of terror when they were attacked by drunks wielding shovels and bear spray.
Kari Johnson, a male friend, her
14-year-old son Marco and nine-year-old daughter Kira arrived at Golden Ears Provincial Park on Friday night to find the gates to the camping area locked.
The park caretaker suggested they pull into a roadside parking area, pitch their tent and wait until morning.
Johnson and her friend bunked down in the tent. Her son and daughter went to sleep in the car.
"Within an hour of us laying down, the teenagers came cruising through the parking lot doing doughnuts," Johnson said.
Scared the drunks were going to drive into her tent or car, she called Maple Ridge RCMP who told her they wouldn't attend unless she got the licence plate number.
It was 12:15 a.m. Johnson said the scene repeated itself at 1:15, 2:30 and finally at 4:15 a.m. when Johnson, her male friend and son decided to get park staff to help.
They left Kira locked and sleeping in the car and walked about 100 metres to the park watchmen's hut. But, she said, the watchman wouldn't help because the teens were outside the park.
On their way back to the car, the teens in a Cherokee emerged from a driveway on Fern Crescent, near the park gates.
"They were going to come and do it again," Johnson said.
Still on the phone to the RCMP, she, her friend and son stood in front of the truck and told them the police were on their way.
"Within two seconds, 15 teenagers came around the corner," she said. They were carrying bear spray, crowbars, rakes and shovels.
Johnson said she told the police, "they're coming with weapons and they're going to hurt us if you don't get up here."
"They surrounded us and then some girl came at me."
Johnson said the teens blocked the road to her car and Kira, so she and her son fled back to the park hut. The mother and son left her male friend, now himself armed with a shovel, to deal with the mob. Some of the teens were able to slip past him and "total" Johnson's 2004 Honda Civic as Kira huddled inside.
"She woke up to them kicking the sides of my car," Johnson said.
Kira cowered under a blanket as the vandals booted in the bodywork and smashed in all but two of the car windows.
The little girl in the backseat was cut on the hands, feet, legs and arms by flying glass.
Johnson, meanwhile, was still screaming down the phone to get the RCMP to come and help.
"I can't even tell you how many calls I made to them," Johnson said.
She estimates it took police 30 minutes to arrive. The teens scattered once the RCMP got there.
Kira was taken to hospital by ambulance to be treated for her cuts. Johnson said Kira seems OK but was shaken up, telling her, "mom, I could have been in a wheelchair."
Johnson's car was towed away for repairs and forensics testing.
Maple Ridge RCMP confirmed they spoke to several individuals at the scene, but have yet to make any arrests.
The owners of the home on Fern Crescent where Johnson said the trouble began could not be reached for comment.
A representative of the company that manages the campgrounds at Golden Ears, Gibson Pass Resort Inc., was also not available.
I hate to say it but, this situation would probably ended a lot sooner and more calmly if the campers were legally carrying a firearm.
I know here in the US the police are legally bound only to keep the general populace safe, not individual people.
Absolutely rediculous.
I know here in the US the police are legally bound only to keep the general populace safe, not individual people.
Absolutely rediculous.
- Thread starter
- #35
This was a primitive car camping spot.
Unfortunately these idiots are everywhere and there is really very little a person can do that is rational other than realize that occurrences like these are truly rare and still enjoy what wilderness you can find.
That and demand aggressive policing and prosecution so that on the few occasions when these fiends are caught they get what they deserve and the rest of us are protected from their future predations.
That and demand aggressive policing and prosecution so that on the few occasions when these fiends are caught they get what they deserve and the rest of us are protected from their future predations.
Nah it wasn't me involved in this one but i know the park really well and being BC it's only about an hours drive from downtown Vancouver.
What a horrible traumatic experience for any family to go through though.
These kids should get three months in a hard labor work camp for their actions.
What a horrible traumatic experience for any family to go through though.
These kids should get three months in a hard labor work camp for their actions.
Murder in the Colorado forest too in the past week
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_6256419
It only takes 1 sicko. Real sad story, a girl doing work with the USGS killed by a prior murder convict. Makes me wonder if the parole system is working all that well.
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_6256419
It only takes 1 sicko. Real sad story, a girl doing work with the USGS killed by a prior murder convict. Makes me wonder if the parole system is working all that well.
I sleep in my cruiser. If someone messes with it or me, I generally climb into the driver's seat and run them over. A 37" tire in the hood of the teens or a brushbar to the chest tends to send a message.
If they have guns and want to kill you they will try and probably succeed. I try to camp in well travelled areas, official parks, and places with a lot of patrols. Tellico is awesome that way. The rangers are always coming by and enforce the law very well.
I have been in some REMOTE areas and thought I was going to have problems, but they always worked out. People are animals, so remove societal influence and they revert....crazy.
If they have guns and want to kill you they will try and probably succeed. I try to camp in well travelled areas, official parks, and places with a lot of patrols. Tellico is awesome that way. The rangers are always coming by and enforce the law very well.
I have been in some REMOTE areas and thought I was going to have problems, but they always worked out. People are animals, so remove societal influence and they revert....crazy.
In Canada?!? No such thing as legally defending yourself with a firearm in the great socialist experiment they call Canada that I'm aware of. That's where the US is headed as well, but in the mean time my P220 will keep the zombies out of my campsite quite nicely.
-voodoo
