LJ79 3L - Stiff, "2 stage" clutch!!!

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Hi guys/gals, this one has be and my mech stumped. Well, stumped without as yet having taken the box out.

I can drive the car pretty normally forwards. However attempting to enter reverse - there is clashing of the gears i.e. all the symptoms of the clutch not having been depressed sufficiently.

And this does appear to be fact - in the sense that if one pushes past the initial clutch "stop" - i.e. where the clutch appears to have bottomed out - and makes around 4 times the effort, the clutch pedal can be depressed even further, and there is no problem to engage reverse.

(PS - no floor mats or similar play a part)

In effect, the clutch appears to be two-stage, an initial, light, normal stage which due to the fact that the vehicle is in motion when forward gears are selected and possibly due to better synchro on first than on reverse - this first stage is fine, let's say the clutch disengages but is possibly still rubbing with very light pressure.

Then the second stage, past a very distinct stop in the first stage, whereby the clutch is FULLY disengaged and hence all gears (reverse particularly, but ever so slightly noticeable in first gear too) all engage perfectly, no gear clashing at all.

Now I took this prob to my mech and he says there is nothing on the inside that could be causing this?

I tend to disbelieve, because what else could be causing this 2-stage effect?

This is not appearing to be a pedal position adjustment issue (why would it be) because adjusting this only results in the first stage 'stop' moving accordingly. If I adjust so I don't get a second stage (pedal down) then I simply can't smoothly engage reverse - the second stiff stage is essential for further disengagement. Similarly I can adjust so the second stage starts half way up the pedal travel.

But am reluctant to order the box out and it turns out that this was not necessary. The clutch is otherwise fine, no slip. Also because I am familiar with other vehicles' clutches I really can't understand where this two-stage thing and related extra stiffness is coming from.

So, what is it about? Are 3L clutches different? (Mech says no?) Is there any possible damage (pressure plate, etc) that could be causing this? Ideas?

(Futher reading - How it all started? Well it was probably there most of the time but got worse. I took the car in for a service and also with a note to check out the clutch, it was disengaging right at the bottom of the pedal stroke resulting in problems engaging all gears. The system was bled and after that the m/cyl was replaced also (pointlessly it would seem) and the slave checked too, no leaks.)

Thanks in advance!!!
 
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Is there a booster on your clutch?

Does it have the dual mass flywheel?

~John

Booster no,

Dual mass? I would not know, but mech who should be familiar with similar, never commented that there is anything unusual about the clutch.

It's an LJ79, 3L (2.8D) engine, would that help? If it did have a DM clutch, does any of the above make sense?

Thanks...
 
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Have no idea, bought car used 2 yrs ago.

Would clutch wear be a factor? There is no slip and bite is low rather than high (which seems to be the problem).

How much on the speedo? Wear would almost certainly be a factor. If the master and slave cyl are good,start saving for a clutch kit.
Whats the pivot pin on the clutch pedal like? These wear oval shaped and might give this 2 stage effect.
 
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How much on the speedo? Wear would almost certainly be a factor. If the master and slave cyl are good,start saving for a clutch kit.
Whats the pivot pin on the clutch pedal like? These wear oval shaped and might give this 2 stage effect.

Speedo (think it may be clocked by around 60k) showing 140-ish km not miles.

Pivot on the PEDAL? Or in the bellhousing? I still would find that weird to cause any such effect.

Can any known damage or wear to the clutch / components cause this? This is the main thing, I do know what a clutch looks like and how it works and have replaced clutches myself on other cars but for the life of me I can not figure how a clutch can display these symptoms. Unless there is something really different to this clutch - I am not familar with "dual mass" clutches (if this has one, that is - pure speculation) and what they are about.

As previous there is a distinct 'stop' to the clutches' first part of travel where the plate is 95% disengaged then you need to really push to go the extra. If unknowing (in fact I only recently discovered this myself!) it gets so stiff you would never imagine that there was more travel to be had. But travel there is and with current settings around 1/3rd more travel.

I just would not wish to take the box out and find everything all hunky dory, hence the query here, whether anyone can provide an explanation that is confirming that yes the box does need to come out because a, b, c...

Thanks again guys... I graunch in hope!!!
 
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I meant the pivot on the pedal as I was looking for things that would save having to remove it.

Can you see the yoke,the bit that pushes on the thrust bearing? Maybe get someone to pump the pedal while you look.
Although I would have thought your mechanic would have checked all that.

If all else checks ok,out it comes;)
 

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