Lift Kit Questions RE: Military Wrap (1 Viewer)

pb4ugo

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I've broken or mangled a few of main leaves and bunch of spring center pins. I figured out the broken center pin issue yrs ago. The 1st broken spring was back in the 80's, the left rear broke between the axle and the spring clamp on the frame mount side. The springs didn't have military wraps. The spring clamp kept the broken leaf wedged between the clamp and the spring pack. We used a chain and the winch to keep the axle from pivoting front to back, and slowly drove the 40 home. Fortunately I was wheeling locally. I then purchased 4" Skyjackers and ran them for about 10yrs. They were great, they rode smoother than the previous lift and I would get compliments on how flexible the suspension was when wheeling down in KY. The left frt spring developed a tear in the main leaf that extended 3/4's of the way across the main leaf. They were replaced with BDS springs. I knew folks who had them and at the time they were warrantied for life, or in my case until they quit making them. They were military wrapped on both ends. The 2 complaints I had with them was they were not as flexible as the Skyjackers and the M/wrap on the frame mount end interfered with the frame periodically and made noise. About 2 months ago, about a mile back on a trail in the woods behind my house I heard a lot of clunking. The main leaf had broken on the left frt, between the axle and the solid frame mount. The 40 barely sagged and I was able to carefully drive it out. I was real happy that the leaves had wraps on both ends. Fortunately, I still had my old Skyjacker rear springs, so I installed the rear springs on the frt of the 40 to get it up and running again. They are more flexible than the BDS spring were.

I did purchase a set of 4" Skyjackers for my Street 40, mainly because of the price and my past experience with the ride and flexibilty. B4 purchasing I looked at Hell Creek and HFS too. At he time Hell Creek closed for a short time so that left Skyjacker and HFS. I opted for the cheaper. The 40 was going to be for light wheeling and more street driving. Skyjackers come with the bushings for the springs only. IDK if it means anything or not, but I did notice if you google search FJ40 BDS springs, an old CCOT post comes up in the search results, evidently CCOT handled BDS back then. About the same time BDS quit making springs for 40's & CCOT started offering HFS. HFS appears to be wrapped on both ends and offers a lifetime warranty for broken springs to the original purchaser. I Hope this might be helpful.
 
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Claudia's (@DSRTRDR) 40 hasn't seen a lot of trail time lately (...the seductive powers of the LX450...), and it 'wheels a bit differently now with a slightly wider stance and 315s. But before the LX came around, she's had the 40's tires in the air more times than anyone can count - 40s in general seem to have the suspension articulation of a shopping cart when you put the truck in the rocks. What goes up must come down, and more often than not that part hasn't been very gentle. The skyjacker mains have taken all of that without a hiccup. The leaf she snapped was one below the main.
DSC_9035.JPG
 

lcwizard

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In 1980 the 40 went from the 25mm OD bushing to a 34mm OD bushing ( 1" vs 1 3/8" ). The larger diameter allowed more flex. It also
required a larger spring eye, hence more clearance between the frame and centerline of the spring pin. The fixed end mount of the spring was
spretched about 1/4" frame to pin center to account for the larger eye. Most spring manufacturers opted for the larger eyelet. To get a consistent fit in the older
spring hangers they opted to drop the mill wrap otherwise most trucks would experience rubbing between the frame and mil wrap. I like the larger bushing,
myself. The OD is standard for Late 40s. Toyota no longer makes the spring hangers for the late. I used to swap hangers from the lates to the earlies just to run larger eye springs with the stronger 18mm pins and a mil wrap.
Although Toyota probably only makes bushings with the late style 18mm pin while early 40s had a ~15mm pin, Specter, man-a-fre and the other big vendors carry bushings with the small pin / large eye. OME bushings also work
 

RWBeringer4x4

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In 1980 the 40 went from the 25mm OD bushing to a 34mm OD bushing ( 1" vs 1 3/8" ). The larger diameter allowed more flex. It also
required a larger spring eye, hence more clearance between the frame and centerline of the spring pin. The fixed end mount of the spring was
spretched about 1/4" frame to pin center to account for the larger eye. Most spring manufacturers opted for the larger eyelet. To get a consistent fit in the older
spring hangers they opted to drop the mill wrap otherwise most trucks would experience rubbing between the frame and mil wrap. I like the larger bushing,
myself. The OD is standard for Late 40s. Toyota no longer makes the spring hangers for the late. I used to swap hangers from the lates to the earlies just to run larger eye springs with the stronger 18mm pins and a mil wrap.
Although Toyota probably only makes bushings with the late style 18mm pin while early 40s had a ~15mm pin, Specter, man-a-fre and the other big vendors carry bushings with the small pin / large eye. OME bushings also work

I think this answers one of my questions - whether I could use my existing (3/4" over stock) shackles with one of these lift kits. I've got the MAF/4+ anti inversion shackles on the back and some unknown regular 3/4" over stock bar shackles on the front.
 

pjohnson

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I had a buddy break a main spring on the Rubicon. It was an original spring that broke at the edge of the perch due to fatigue.

Since then, I carry a spare main leaf on the trail.
 

RWBeringer4x4

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@lcwizard - is there any reason your U-Bolt flip kits wouldn't work with some of the setups we are discussing? I can't imagine why they would but it's worth asking because those will definitely be happening when the time comes. I have to imagine as long as they're all roughly the same width they should work fine.
 
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IMO, after having custom alcans on my 40 for 18 years is that if you want to have correct shackle angle, spring rate fit to vehicle, and set you wheel base where you want then you order alcans or another custom spring. The MW , well it has come in handy when trying to lace together broken springs and I think it helps with axle wrap in the back. Being able to order springs that will ride well given your intended load, be long enough to get proper shackle angle , and you can pick up some wheel base by having the center pins off set ( maybe 2 " each end, getting you 4" of WB). If you are going on the cheap then put some fj60 springs on, that said, I keep waiting for my alcans to break in, it has not happened and I realized they are a bit stiff(bouncy) but perform well. So, it has great on road handling for a rock crawler, bounces the s*** outa you on cobble and smaller rocky sections but if you air down to say 6 - 8 psi and load 400lbs of camping gear it rolls around quite nicely, until yu unload at camp, then she can be a bit of a joy ride. Again, airing down has been the single most effective tool to combat traction, bouncing, less air is mo better. Nothing will compensate for a crap shackle angle , it's gotta be 10* or 15* at a min. I am going to remove a leaf on the old alcans and see if they flatten out a bit, 4.25 " of up travel is overrated and very rarely is needed, not racing or pounding down a washboard road so the uptravel aint si important.
 
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RWBeringer4x4

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IMO, after having custom alcans on my 40 for 18 years is that if you want to have correct shackle angle, spring rate fit to vehicle, and set you wheel base where you want then you order alcans or another custom spring. The MW , well it has come in handy when trying to lace together broken springs and I think it helps with axle wrap in the back. Being able to order springs that will ride well given your intended load, be long enough to get proper shackle angle , and you can pick up some wheel base by having the center pins off set ( maybe 2 " each end, getting you 4" of WB). If you are going on the cheap then put some fj60 springs on, that said, I keep waiting for my alcans to break in, it has not happened and I realized they are a bit stiff(bouncy) but perform well. So, it has great on road handling for a rock crawler, bounces the s*** outa you on cobble and smaller rocky sections but if you air down to say 6 - 8 psi and load 400lbs of camping gear it rolls around quite nicely, until yu unload at camp, then she can be a bit of a joy ride. Again, airing down has been the single most effective tool to combat traction, bouncing, less air is mo better. Nothing will compensate for a crap shackle angle , it's gotta be 10* or 15* at a min. I am going to remove a leaf on the old alcans and see if they flatten out a bit, 4.25 " of up travel is overrated and very rarely is needed, not racing or pounding down a washboard road so the uptravel aint si important.

Right now I'm running mostly sagged out stock springs with Gabriel Load-Leveler shocks that, while they do their job, make the ride pretty brutal and the suspension flex non-existent (the shocks push back against the springs). I like the idea of Alcans as they certainly seem to be the best way to dial in everything perfectly - but there have been really hit or miss reviews as to whether they got the springs right. Glad to hear you've had good luck. Paying a premium and then shiping on a couple hundred pounds of metal across the country makes me a bit nervous but I haven't ruled out the idea entirely.
 
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FWIW I run the 5125 bilsteins (higher pressure of the 2 offerings) which push back against spring, maybe I should go back to a standard shock, might take some of the boing,boing, boing out of the ole wagon.
 

RWBeringer4x4

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FWIW I run the 5125 bilsteins (higher pressure of the 2 offerings) which push back against spring, maybe I should go back to a standard shock, might take some of the boing,boing, boing out of the ole wagon.

The load-levelers have a full-on coilover setup - My truck doesn't flex, it tips. I also have skinny 7.5R16 load-rated E tires (super stiff) that I'm usually cautious to air down below about 18psi.

1598032269198.png
 

DSRTRDR

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@lcwizard - is there any reason your U-Bolt flip kits wouldn't work with some of the setups we are discussing? I can't imagine why they would but it's worth asking because those will definitely be happening when the time comes. I have to imagine as long as they're all roughly the same width they should work fine.

I used his U-bolt flip kit with my Skyjackers
 

DSRTRDR

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Right now I'm running mostly sagged out stock springs with Gabriel Load-Leveler shocks that, while they do their job, make the ride pretty brutal and the suspension flex non-existent (the shocks push back against the springs). I like the idea of Alcans as they certainly seem to be the best way to dial in everything perfectly - but there have been really hit or miss reviews as to whether they got the springs right. Glad to hear you've had good luck. Paying a premium and then shiping on a couple hundred pounds of metal across the country makes me a bit nervous but I haven't ruled out the idea entirely.

from what I remember reading in the posts complaining about Alcans, they just sell you springs sized for a Jeep
 

RWBeringer4x4

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from what I remember reading in the posts complaining about Alcans, they just sell you springs sized for a Jeep

I mean they're basically the same thing right? ;)

In all seriousness I'm not 100% sure that's true - I've been on their site a few times and they ask you to provide spring eye measurements, individual wheel weights at each corner, etc. on a form before you even contact them for a quote. Seems like they legitimately set out to build a custom spring pack. I wheeled with a 40 running Alcans last year and they seemed sized apropriately, good shackle angles, etc. Just seems like over the years the quality/successfully producing the springs to spec is a bit hit or miss.
 

RWBeringer4x4

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If you are going on the cheap then put some fj60 springs on

Not the first time I've heard this. Wouldn't I need the bigger spring hangers, etc. to go with them? They'd certainly be longer but would they provide a lift at all? Seems like if I had a post 1980 rig this might work for a longer spring, more relaxed shackle angle but on my rig I think I'd need to change the pin mounts at the very least.
 

lcwizard

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I used his U-bolt flip kit with my Skyjackers
the flip kits will accommodate up to a 70mm or 2 3/4" wide spring which is what the late 40s and 60s ran Your earlier 40 spring was about 5mm narrower.
Some of the aftermarket springs use domestic spring steel so there's a few springs that are 2 1/2". They work fine too.
 

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