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liability - individual club officers

Discussion in 'TLCA- Discussion Forum' started by Junk, Jan 4, 2004.

  1. Junk

    Junk

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    Feel free to delete this post if it's inappropriate.

    My local club is once again discussing the remote possibility of having an election for officers. Seems like the idea comes up once a year, then fades off again.

    Mostly our club gets together for some small rides at an offroading park (fee for entrance with waivers), once or twice a year at a local member's property, and our club event (at the above mentioned park). This year, during one of the wheeling days at a local member's property, someone rolled their truck. This doesn't happen frequently because they are more low keyed wheeling and more into just doing intermediate stuff and hanging out. That said, I know in the back of most member's minds, there is a question of liability. This question I believe could kill the club. If there is no one new willing to step in, then the club will likely eventually fold. Does the TCLA provide any type of liability coverage to the club officers for something like this? What if the club puts on a TLCA event?

    I'm one of those guys that is a bad seed, so I'd never be good for a role, but am curious. Thanks.
     
  2. folsom50

    folsom50

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    Sh*t Junk! I really never figured you'd be one to drag this around, and I know it's not a reflection of you, I'm not a member of any club, but maybe I'm not really with the times. Your driving is your own responsibility, I didn't know this crap was going on, and quite frankly I'm glad now I'm not a member! Apparently common sense no longer prevails, just go out and tear everything up and if you screw up and toast your own rig you can come back on the host...NO FAWKIN THANK YOU!
     
  3. woody

    woody unhelpful spotter Staff Member Admin

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    clubs are set up under articles of incorporation. In Wisconsin, it's a 501-c6? status...non-profit club status (not tax exempt however - ie: non charity..maybe 501-C3...can't recall...)

    Officers of a corporation are "automatically" exempt from liability....anyone in the club, as a member, really cannot sue their own club anyways. The only available assets are those of the club, usually minimal.

    Not quite that simple, but close.

    One of many reasons that ih8mud.com will be incorporated in 2004...(sole prop now)
     
  4. Junk

    Junk

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    Folsom,
    No no no. Nothing ever came of it. The guy was ok and is a member of IH8Mud. He was totally ok and all is cool.

    This simply brought the thought to minds of those that heard about it. What if someone does get hurt? Hey, I'm involved in all types of stuff. I've lost friends in climbing etc. I understand and accept every risk I take. I'm simply asking because I know that several folks have it on their mind and it could keep them from getting more involved.

    Yes, I understand we all view it as our responsibility etc. The question is though, if you are president of your club, or have any role in any event, is there any type of support provided by the TLCA if something happens.

    It could be a busted winch cable. Could be someone just getting tboned as they pull into the event. Could be someone hurt on the trail by a weld they made that didn't hold up etc.

    Not trying to open up a can of worms, but yes, I would like to know.
     
  5. folsom50

    folsom50

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    My misunderstanding, I just took Junk's post the wrong way. I actually would enjoy being in a local club, do the camping/4-wheeling thing with other cruiserheads, but seeing as I haven't seen a fj-40 on the roads around here in 15 years, I doubt I'll get the chance anytime soon.
     
  6. TRT2

    TRT2

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    Junk...

    I'm probably the least qualified to offer an answer but I will regurgatate what I've heard.

    TLCA insurance only applies to Sponsored Events. It basically covers the hosting Chapter, event chairfolks and TLCA from suites brought on from actions at an event. It will not repair someones truck if they rolled, I'm not even sure it would pay their medical bills in case of an injury, I believe it is designed to protect the land owner, the host and TLCA.

    This is why events have to be Sponsored by TLCA, to get insurance. Events types are Hosted, Sanctioned, Open, Rallye, Restricted and Limited, Limited being a Club run where only Club members attend.

    Now I absolutely cannot speak for club level insurance and state set up, etc. I do know that even our club does not possess that type of coverage, most don't. And even signing a waiver usually does not hold up in court.

    These are issues and decisions that each of us must make when it comes to our clubs. I have no simple or good answer.
    Until then, we certainly need to make Safety our number 1 priority when enjoying our sport, which is wrought with danger and peril. Danger and Peril, Oh My!

    Personally, I find that upfront communication is best. At the start of any run or event, I usually inform everyone that 'you're on your own'. If someone spots you a line your not comfortable with, don't take it. YOu roll, your fault. If folks are not comfortable with that approach, then they should probably leave and not participate. If they think they are going to get hurt and have someone else pay for it, see ya later.

    While I believe that is the unwritten rule, its good to publicize it and make it the written rule, even if only verbal.

    Insurance and liability, there is no good answer.

    also, these are only my opinions and do not represent the views of this establishment. 8)
     
  7. Junk

    Junk

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    Thanks Tony, greatly appreciate it. Also, thanks Woody.

    Yeah, I guess I was visiting fantasyland thinking there may be a end-all solution to potential issues. Sounds like the best way to avoid issues is to just make sure everyone understands the risks and incorporating doesn't hurt either.

    Sorry for raising the question, but figured to better ask than to avoid being involved out of not knowing.
     
  8. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    Junk,

    I'll echo this paragraph from Tony:
    Personally, I find that upfront communication is best. At the start of any run or event, I usually inform everyone that 'you're on your own'. If someone spots you a line your not comfortable with, don't take it. YOu roll, your fault. If folks are not comfortable with that approach, then they should probably leave and not participate. If they think they are going to get hurt and have someone else pay for it, see ya later.

    While I believe that is the unwritten rule, its good to publicize it and make it the written rule, even if only verbal.


    Our small club recently implemented a waiver form though we haven't been using it. The whole discussion came about after an unfortunate inter-club trip about a year ago. One vehicle got into a lot of trouble and though no one was injured, there was several thousand $$ in damage to the guest's truck (LR Disco.)

    Following that trip, we decided we needed what Tony described... something that outlined the risks that we could give to non-club members that attend our events from time to time.

    One of our members is an attorney and she said (basically) that we can't have someone sign away their litigation rights and, for whatever reason, someone can sue anyone they want to. The written waiver is just a way to communicate to all non-member participants (drivers and guests) that there is risk and you're own your own if something happens.

    FWIW, we've had 2 members involved in serious automobile accidents that were club related. One was a guy coming to the meeting (totalled his FJ60) and the other was a club trip where the guy hit a cow at 30 MPH coming into the town where everyone was meeting.

    Anyway, we now have a waiver form... just gotta get people to start using it.

    -B-
     
  9. Junk

    Junk

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    Good point B and everyone else. Looks like it's time to step up to the plate. :eek: