Let's talk towing with the 2F... (1 Viewer)

[joebattle1]

I just recently took the truck and baby blue Hilux on it's first adventure (Surf N Turf, Pismo Beach) All and all the rig did ok pulling the trailer... As far as fuel mileage went... I got about 8.5 mpg's pulling baby blue. Yikes! I did get tons of smiles per miles and a bout 100 thumbs up while making the voyage to the beach though. I definitely want to put a new straight trailer axle with brakes on the Hilux. Fully loaded, with all of our camping gear and two coolers, I could feel the 60 brakes begging for mercy coming down some of the grades. Once you hit an up hill you are in the slow lane with the 53 footers in 3rd gear at 35-45 MPH. Thank god the speed limit is 55 in CA for any vehicle pulling a trailer cause that's about all she had in her sometimes. On the flats she's fine, can hold her own at 65 but the minute you hit grade, forget about it... The ol 2F does just keep pulling, albeit slowly... she chugs along at 65 in the flats.

I will say this.... It made me think long and hard about dragging the trailer to Tahoe in the summer. Donner Pass would surely cause the 2F to overheat if I was pulling the trailer in the summer months in 80 degree heat with the AC on (wife kid dog, all need AC)

On the way home from the beach there is one sorta big mtn range to get over. It's long and steep and by the time I got to the top the temp gauge was almost touching the red. Had the pass been any longer I would have had to pull over and let it cool down. This was after sun down and the ambient temp was probably about 65 degrees F.


@Hojack now has me really reconsidering a cummins 4bt. I was dead set on an LS swap before but his build has me really re considering this. The sure brute force of the UPS motor is really appealing. I love the idea of the race truck with an LS but the Cummins seams to be more suited for the trucks actual function.

Here's a couple pics of the trip (yea yea... same as the ones in by build thread)

This thing was just the coolest.

 

[Seth S]

Sounds similar. I recently towed a couple project vehicles from my friends house back to mine using a tow dolly. The dolly probably weighed about 800 lbs and the heaviest thing i towed was about 1500 lbs. VT hills I could hold 45mph in 3rd gear. Flats 55 or faster was possible.

 

[OSS]

For over 40 years the world has been saying the 2F is a poor choice for towing and you proved them right!
It's just the wrong tool for the job.

 

[joebattle1]

For over 40 years the world has been saying the 2F is a poor choice for towing and you proved them right!
It's just the wrong tool for the job.

Yet I'm still a fan of the engine... Go figure.

 

[MoaByte]

One of the reasons I chose "The Sixty" was I assumed the I-6 would tow better than my 20r powered pick up. And it does, but not much better. It tows my 16' Avon raft just fine, and looks good doing it. Nothing impressive however. I still haven't found a vehicle I like more than my 60.

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

My truck with the 5.3 and 4l60e tows pretty awesome ... for an FJ60 that is. I lug around a 3500 lb. RV pretty often with no problems. The fact is though you will hit the limit of what the 60 chassis can handle long before you hit the limits of either the LS or 4bt drivetrain.

Looks like a fun trip! I gotta get down there one of these days.

-Ed

 

[DFXR]

Joe, get a 100. Just do it. Find an ugly one and make it your BART car. It won't exactly be an F-450 when it comes to towing but it will handle that trailer easily. I've towed three dirt bikes + gear up to the Sierras and Mendo many times without any trauma. Always aware of the load but never really worrying about it if that makes sense.

I don't think you can make a Cummins swap legal in CA anymore. A couple years ago, yes, but not anymore. I'd love to be told I'm wrong if that's the case.

Unless that Volvo in the picture is yours too, in which case you may have a car problem.

And.... as bad as the 2F may be at towing, doing it on 33s just makes it that much worse.

 

[Seth S]

For over 40 years the world has been saying the 2F is a poor choice for towing and you proved them right!
It's just the wrong tool for the job.

It’s not the wrong tool when it’s the only tool you have and you use it appropriately. I didn’t buy a 60 to tow. But I have a 60 and I can tow small stuff.

 

[Cruzerman]

The 60 just was never designed to tow heavy loads. Even with an engine swap, I don't think it would be safe. JMHO.

 

[Kief]

I would like to know what a factory fresh super tight good as new 2f would run like- how quick, how well it would tow. I never have driven one. My 60's were all in pretty good shape and never were that impressive for towing, acceleration, stopping or either one when towing. If I wasn't in a big hurry then no biggie. You should be able to tow a small trailer without a lot of issue.
I would say a 4bt if set up right will out-run a 2f but is noisier and not as driver friendly- vibrations, noise and a lack of RPM are not fun in town. I don't think I will do another 4bt swap. There are better things to do.

 

[PescaBaja]

Back in 1995 and 1996 I towed a small trailer (3500lbs) down to the tip of Baja Mexico and back with our 87FJ60. I had myself, wife, and two children in the back seat. The Con-Ferr rack on top was loaded with camping gear. The rear of our 87FJ60 was loaded with gear. The trailer had food and supplies inside. Needless to say I had over burdened the '60 for both trips. In 1997 my daughter was driving the '60 in the eastern sierra and locked up the transfer case. When we got her home the seal on the shaft that puts the transfer case into 4WD had popped off and drained out most of the gear oil. I opened up the transfer case to find it black inside and ALL the shafts and gears were purple colored... i.e. scorched from heat. While diagnosing how much of the transfer case internals would need to be replaced my transmission expert put the main gear on the input/output shaft and showed me how much play (1/8-3/16") there was between the splines of shaft and gear. He asked me if I was towing anything and I said yes... a trailer. He proceeded to explain to me that towing a trailer with a manual tranny puts tremendous "torsional force harmonics" on the drive train from the engine through the transmission/transfer case to the rear diff. and back. As the engine is pulling then backing off the trailer is pushing/pulling. These forces meet at one place...that transfer case main gear and input/output shaft splines. It's the shaft the PTO gear is on. The shaft and gear are hammering each other's splines as the harmonics are moving back and forth. I ended up replacing everything in the transfer case ($2500 in parts) and learned a hard lesson... don't tow with a '60 unless it is really lightweight.

 

[jakerudy]

My 60 with the 6BT has plenty of power to pull about any trailer but I don't do it due to brakes, vehicle weight, and short wheelbase.

Many years ago I pulled a hay trailer with a CJ-5 with the 304. Probably around 5000 lbs or so on a bumper hitch. Had enough engine to pull it but not enough vehicle to control or stop. It was a white knuckle experience and not much fun. I've pulled 25k+ with a 3/4 ton pickup and felt much safer.

As a daily driver my 60 is great but it isn't a tow vehicle for anything heavy.

An added note, when I bought my 60 with the original 2F over 20 years ago I replaced every radiator hose, heater hose, thermostat, and the radiator cap for a vacation to New Mexico. Crossing Texas it started to overheat but would cool down at lower speeds. In Sante Fe I was able to get a Toyota radiator cap and it never overheated again. The lower pressure cap allowed cavitation in the water pump.

 

[joebattle1]

@DFXR youre absolutely right. I’m getting a Hundo. The 60 pulled this little trailer just fine but it’s just not made for this. Good for local camping trips and getting fire wood but that’s it. I think I’ll just put an h55 in, lockers and call this thing done.

I’ve been hunting for the right deal on a 100. Hopefully by this time next year I have one...

 

[OSS]

I would like to know what a factory fresh super tight good as new 2f would run like

Not all that much different than a well taken care of and tuned up 2F with 100,000 miles on it. I've driven a brand new FJ60 (32 years ago) and owned one for 30 years and the difference really isn't that noticeable.

 

[SteveH]

And.... as bad as the 2F may be at towing, doing it on 33s just makes it that much worse.

Try this at 7000-10000' elevation! That's one reason I never ran 33s.

 

[Cruzerman]

Remember, these were only rated to tow 3500 lbs.

 

[Willard]

Safely I would say 2500 - 3000Lbs with light gear in the back. Anything above that at today's speeds is sketchy. Rated at 3500 as @Cruzerman said but I always stay under for safety sake.
I have towed a 2500lbs Boston Whaler up smaller inclines etc in a BJ42 (3B non turbo Diesel).

Also I would like to point out one thing always when towing a trailer. Not only is it important to not go past the manufactures recommended limits, but if you ever got into a serious accident and there is any sort of an investigation if overweight not only will you be up the creek, but I doubt your insurance will cover you.

 

[DFXR]

@DFXR youre absolutely right. I’m getting a Hundo. The 60 pulled this little trailer just fine but it’s just not made for this. Good for local camping trips and getting fire wood but that’s it. I think I’ll just put an h55 in, lockers and call this thing done.

I’ve been hunting for the right deal on a 100. Hopefully by this time next year I have one...

Checking the classifieds here from time to time, I do see deals come up. For $10K you could get a very solid but slightly dinged up example, with tons of life left in it. There just isn't any insanity around them (yet), like there is for 60s and clean 80s.

You are welcome to take mine for a spin if you want to jump start your obsession.

I was searching for a way to describe towing with the 60... It's like taking an old dog on a long hard run, or asking your elderly dad to help you move... you know he'll do it, but is it really a good idea?

 

[hygge]

@joebattle1 join me and @DFXR and we can be the folks with 60s and 100s in the Bay.

I am loving my 99' , its awesome and powerful. Also got mine for $9k ! It needs a little love, but well worth every penny.

 

[2mountainfish]

@DFXR youre absolutely right. I’m getting a Hundo. The 60 pulled this little trailer just fine but it’s just not made for this. Good for local camping trips and getting fire wood but that’s it. I think I’ll just put an h55 in, lockers and call this thing done.

I’ve been hunting for the right deal on a 100. Hopefully by this time next year I have one...

I think your headed in the right direction, going with a 100 for towing. As far as the 60 is concerned, I would think long and hard about swapping engines. Once you do, it's really not a 60 anymore. I will probably get flamed for this statement, but I fail to see any advantage of going diesel. More maintenance, more noise and definitely more smell.You have a very nice example of a 60 and it would be a shame to see it Frankensteined. Just my .02. Glad you had fun at T&S.