kdss better then lc or lx? (1 Viewer)

[r3run33]

hello i had a ride in a gx with the kdss and it was very nice any ideas why its not offered in the lc or lx???? can wieght be a issue?

 

[tabraha]

My theory is that Toyota didn't want to re-engineer the suspension on the LC to gain that option; an option that they came out with years after the initial design of the 100. The GX has a newer design so the newer technology was better integrated. The LC's suspension hasn't changed all that much since '98. I could be completely wrong though.

 

[calamaridog]

Sounds like a solid theory

 

[Rusty Phillips]

looking at the kinetics website is pretty interesting

http://www.kinetic.au.com/techno.html

the hydraulically linked swaybars seem like an easy retrofit if there is space available

I suspect limiting the kdss to the gx is more a marketing decision than an engineering decision.

screw Toyota - fab your own hydraulically linked swaybars.

Get two small hydraulic cylinders from Harbor Freight, some steel tubing and compression fittings, and break out the welder.







interesting links added

http://fsae.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/125607348/m/63910704521

http://www.sae.org/automag/techbriefs_03-00/10.htm

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=85443

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Sounds like a solid theory

I 3rd this idea. The 100's platform has remained unchanged. Changing this wouldn't add sales IMO. The 100 has more wheel travel than the GX. It'd be nice if we seen both on the next 100. My guess is we will.

 

[NMuzj100]

This lexus video had me sold on the concept.

Lexus GX470 KDSS demo video

The more I see the GX470 the more I like it.

The 4Runner/GX470/LC120 outsells the 100 about 10 to 1 so it gets the priority for engineering resources. I love my 100 but I think that the next vehicle named Landcrusier will be more like the 120 than the 100.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

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The more I see the GX470 the more I like it.

Me too, and I think things like KDSS and the like can only hope our newest generation off-roaders.

The 4Runner/GX470/LC120 outsells the 100 about 10 to 1 so it gets the priority for engineering resources. I love my 100 but I think that the next vehicle named Landcrusier will be more like the 120 than the 100.

I don't believe sales has anything to do with engineering. 4Runners have always outsold Cruisers because they're affordable. 4Runners have never had technical/engineering advances over a Cruiser. In the case of a GX vs a 100 the story is simple. It's newer design and technology. The 100 platform was introduced in 1998. The GX platform is only a couple years old. Features/advancement usually trickle down from higher models. (look at all the improvements that were made to the 100 vs the 80.....same idea, and they had nothing to do with sales.

Oh, if the next Land Cruiser is like the GX470 it won't sell in America, especially the Lexus version. The GX is a toy compared to the 100. It's too small for starters. Second, the underpinnings are no 100 for certain.
Let's hope the next Cruiser is very similar to the current 100. Let's add KDSS or the like to a largely unchanged drivetrain, a rear locker/TRAC combo option and a more powerful motor. Why would anybody with a 100 trade down to a GX? Think about it.....how many LX owners would say the GX is a better vehicle? Ahhhhhh, none. (Though you'll find more people that can afford a GX but not an LX)

I'm not tying to spite LX lovers or owners, however, no matter what you do to a GX/4Runner it'll never be a 100.

 

[clarkrw3]

I always thought that the GX was a 110 hmmm I guess I was wrong all this time, but my father drove one badged as a land cruiser down in costa rica.

 

[FirstToy]

No way you can put KDSS in another rig. It isn't a simple swap. There is alot of junk on there and alot of extra structure.
The 120 platform(GX, 4Runner, Prado) has 8" front travel and 13" rear stock.
I love the GX too, it's a real solid plush ride and nice upgrades from the 4Runner. They did a really good job with it.
Then again, I think the 100 is a beautiful ride too.

This is the massive piston that pushes the swaybar down

This is just some of the stuff that the KDSS adds...

 

[Rusty Phillips]

NO WAY to put KDSS on another rig?

you are right that physically there isnt much space available and the cylinder involved is big

but the technology involved is not too radical

and there are alot of experimenters out there who have cut and welded and tweaked far more complicated projects

from kinetics site

Conventional roll stabiliser bars fitted to most modern vehicles work well to reduce vehicle body roll during cornering but also greatly increase single wheel and articulation stiffness, which reduce ride comfort and the vehicles ability to maintain equal wheel loading on uneven surfaces. Suspension designers struggle to find a balance between these ride parameters as each compromises the other. The Kinetic Reverse Function Stabiliser System or RFS can retain conventional bounce and damping methods and works by splitting the roll stabiliser bars using a simple cradle device incorporating a double acting hydraulic cylinders. These cylinders are connected using kinetics unique proprietary RFS arrangement . This arrangement passively frees the bars to allow articulation and single wheel type movements but will not permit vehicle body roll. This roll stiffness and "articulation looseness" are achieved simultaneously with neither mode effecting the other. This system requires no computers, pumps or motors.

 

[NMuzj100]

I am sure that it's the tuning of the parts not the fabricating them that would prove difficult to accomplish.

 

[FirstToy]

Kinetics' XX/Yamaha is the XREAS on the 4Runner also, which is a much simpler system- that, I could see easily being adapted for a 100. The only limitation is proper shock length/mounting.

Not to stop anyone, (anything is possible) but maybe use Kinetics' simpler version and not their KDSS as it's really complex.
This is just 12" of one frame rail:

anyway the 100 rides really nice, why bother?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Wow, 13 inches rear travel huh? OK, that equals a 100 and bests it in the front by a half-inch. Sweet!

 

[calamaridog]

I have to say I like the GX470 better for a town car but I wouldn't beat the crap out of it. The GX is a real sweet ride.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I have to say I like the GX470 better for a town car but I wouldn't beat the crap out of it. The GX is a real sweet ride.

I follow ya on that. I'd luv a GX for a daily driver. I'd not consider one for a wheeler. You can tell by their design and contruction that the GX was made to do most things well, though with comprimises. One example is the fact that too many components are not tucked up and in which is safer and better for four wheeling. Look under a 100 now.....everything is tucked way up and way in (just like an 80 but not like a GX). The low slung gas tanks gotta go on the GX.

 

[tabraha]

I'd love to have a GX too. Down the road it'll be a great vehicle for me to pick up used.

 

[FirstToy]

If you keep in mind that (just because the GX is good, doesn't make the 100 bad) you will be impressed with the fact Toyota makes some great, great suv's for every preference.

I go back and forth between these 2 all the time.
The GX has the advantage of familiarity (for me- no learning curve, I know how to work on everything already) and "new-ness" (power, latest tech, nice size).

The 100 has more cargo room, really outstanding seating position (for me anyway) and the legendary pedigree is no small part of the appeal. Clamshell tailgate is nice. It's also a better value at this point b/c used ones can be picked up for very reasonable prices...

One thing I don't understand is why they used torsion bars on the 100... simplicity? I had torsion bars on my Xterra but I feel coilovers are a better design. Having said that, the 100's ride doesn't seem to suffer for it.

 

[hoser]

One thing I don't understand is why they used torsion bars on the 100... simplicity? I had torsion bars on my Xterra but I feel coilovers are a better design. Having said that, the 100's ride doesn't seem to suffer for it.

In terms of spring longevity, a torsion bar will out live a coil spring--it will maintain its spring rate longer. Another advantage of the torsion bar is for space considerations. The adjustable ride height is a bonus. But all in all, I prefer coil springs too.

 

[Jim_Chow]

Aren't coils more susceptible to fatigue than t-bars? On the newer hilux pickups sold overseas (at least of 2002), the chassis is the same as the USA 1st gen 4runners (front t-bars, rear leafs, fully boxed frame, recirc. ball steering).

 

[r3run33]

ok i drove both now the gx was a 2005 and the lx was a 2006 the kdss is great especially on the highway (cant take a test drive off road) anyway almost got the lx but they offered me only 20k for my 99 which i think is to low so i told them i will think about it. hey by the way i think the gx is not as solid as the lx it may be just me but i think a perfect example is my 99 you shut the door or put on the emrg brake or other crap and it feels and sounds new!! not trying to put the 120 series down but i just feel the materials used are better hey both are still made in japan so i am not beating down the gx but it just feels better in the lx by the way the lx was going for a little over 62k had everything but the night visions and the back seat dvd. oh hey to start another fight all the lx at this dealership had trailer hitch on them but not the bumper ones like we have seen before these were the regular ones i still say some dealerships go the cheap route and go off the bumper which is not as strong.