Is my knuckle seal seated fully? (1 Viewer)

[mike93]

Hello all,
Recently bought a 2007 LC, attempting to get to a baseline maintenance wise with her. First thing on my checklist was the drivers wheel bearing, did lots of research and attempted several times without success as my bc axle will not come out far enough to even get the thinnest snap ring onto it. I should preface this by saying when I originally pried the dust cap off, the snap ring came out with it, so I believe whoever was in here before me had the same issue and just left it.


Keep digging further into the knuckle to attempt to resolve this issue. The point I’m at now, the only thing I can think of is the steel seal on the backside of the knuckle appears to be sitting crooked in the knuckle. Which leads me to believe the axle is mounting at a slight angle, and therefore not protruding from the hub flange as far as it should. I’ve watched most if not all of 2001LC’s YouTube videos on the subject and have been searching thru this forum for a couple weeks but nobody seems to have my specific set of issues with this job. Thanks in advance.

 

[badlander]

The seal looks to be seated correctly to me and even if it wasn't it most likely would not interfere with the axle seating fully in the knuckle unless it was quite far out, which it isn't. However, the axle looks very dry and in need of regreasing the needle bearings, brass bushing, and rubber seal. I would also add a protective coat on the axle itself. Make sure the brass bushing is fully seated in its bore while you are in there as that not seated could cause the issue you are having.
I suspect the issue may be more likely on the drive flange side of the knuckle, most likely the inner bearing race not being fully seated in the hub, grease seal installed backwards (yes, I've seen it happen), or too many old gaskets stacked up on the drive flange surface (seen that too).
You didnt state whether you actually changed the bearings but if you did, or know someone else did, I'd start by making sure the inner bearing race is fully seated in the hub. To do so you will have to remove the grease seal and bearing and then drive on the race with a hammer and drift. You'll know by the feel and sound if it's seated.
The seating condition of the outer race wouldn't have any affect on the issue you are having but I'd check it as well.
With the inside of the knuckle freshly greased you will need to pull on the axle to squeet all of the new grease into the spindle to allow the axle to seat against the brass bushing. Use a puller of some sort or just insert an 8 mm bolt into the axle end and slowely pry on it and hold pressure until she finally comes all the way home.

 

[kwon-offroad]

What @badlander said about lubrication. Given the color of the grease the needle bearing left on the axle your lubrication is definitely tired.

 

[mike93]

Ok, some additional info, when I originally pulled the rotor and hub assembly, the bearings inside seemed ok, grease was a bit tired. I replaced both bearings (timkens which I thought was indicative of non dealer service) with KOYO’s and Mobil 1 grease, as well as the grease seal on the back of the hub. However, I did not replace either bearing race (as they seemed ok and it felt like extra unnecessary work at the time) . I drove the seal into the hub with a piece of wood and I believe I got it satisfactorily flat and well seated. This is why I hadn’t even considered anything around the the hub as a possible culprit.

I am still unfamiliar with how the knuckle and spindle and affiliated seals all work and go in, so I suppose I was extra suspicious of that area due to my ignorance.

I damaged the ball joint during this whole shebang, so the knuckle is currently separated from UCA (awaiting new BJ from cruiserteq) , which allowed me to get a good look behind it and clean all the old grease off and examine to see if any schmoo was back there stopping the axle.

In your opinion should I start digging into/cleaning/ inspecting the hub and rotor areas? Or the knuckle/ spindle and inner areas? I believe everything on the outside was done correctly, new hub flange gasket, new washers and nuts, felt like it seated properly and achieved correct pre-load, just could not get the axle to even show a hint of its snap ring groove.

Thank you all, will follow up with more photos this evening for clarification

 

[MooseMichaels]

Agree on greasing the areas shown, this is crucial and will make your hardware last. Something that may be helpful is pulling the outer cv of the axle in towards your body while you push the retaining snapping on with a flat head.

 

[mike93]

Ok, did what y’all said, cleaned a greased back side of knuckle. Replaced ball joint, and tie rod as well while I was there. Went to re-assemble and try to get snap ring on once again. Same deal, tried harmonic balancer puller like 2001LC shows, made homemade puller with 8mm bolt and channel steel. This thing won’t budge, not even a little bit. Now I’m wondering, is it because when I parked it to do this job the front wheels are slightly not parallel to body? Is it because I reattached knuckle to UCA? Or tie rod? Or do I need a new CV axle or something?

When I shine a light behind knuckle after I have hub and rotor and flange on, I swear it looks like the gap (between end of CV axle and that oil seal on back of knuckle) tapers, larger gap on bottom and narrower towards the top.

 

[badlander]

It may not help with whatever your interference problem is here but it is very inportant to have your drive flange nutted and torqued down prior to selecting the thickness of c-clip for installation. I assume you just have the flange in position for illustrative purposes in your pic, but just a FYI in case not.

 

[badlander]

As far as the idea of the knuckle seal not being fully seated and interfering with the axle, wear marks from the rotating axle from driving it in this condition would be present and easily visible if that were the case. Do you see any indication of scraping or wear marks like this on the axle end where it goes into the knuckle seal, inside of axle seal surfaces, or anywhere on the metal surfaces of the knuckle seal?

 

[mike93]

As far as the idea of the knuckle seal not being fully seated and interfering with the axle, wear marks from the rotating axle from driving it in this condition would be present and easily visible if that were the case. Do you see any indication of scraping or wear marks like this on the axle end where it goes into the knuckle seal, inside of axle seal surfaces, or anywhere on the metal surfaces of the knuckle seal?

Now that you mention it, I guess not. God now I’m really scratching my head.

And I’ve noted your advice about torquing down the hub flange, but as I pull on cv axle I’m also pressing in on hub flange, and several tries ago I did this with it tightened down to see if I gained any clearance, and it didn’t give me any more. But still appreciate the reminder nonetheless.

 

[MooseMichaels]

Brilliant idea with the homemade puller. Since it’s still not pulling through, maybe something is off in your bearing stack up within the hub, making it just a thicker? Just trying to think of anything else that could be causing your issue at this point.

 

[mike93]

Brilliant idea with the homemade puller. Since it’s still not pulling through, maybe something is off in your bearing stack up within the hub, making it just a thicker? Just trying to think of anything else that could be causing your issue at this point.

Thank you, that’s what I’m beginning to suspect. The consensus seems to be its likely the inner (larger?) bearing and race, but I’m hesitant to mess w/ it because I’m not sure how to remove new seal I installed without damaging it. And I can’t see how the seal would seat fully if the bearing wasn’t also fully seated?

 

[Ridgerunner78]

And I can’t see how the seal would seat fully if the bearing wasn’t also fully seated?

The inner seal and bearing can still fully seat against the spindle regardless of how the inner bearing seats into the race. My bet is that the issue is changing the bearings and not the races. Don't know if a good way to remove the inner seal without damaging it. If it were me, I'd get a new inner seal along with new races to match the bearing brand and start over.

 

[dace voit]

The inner seal and bearing can still fully seat against the spindle regardless of how the inner bearing seats into the race. My bet is that the issue is changing the bearings and not the races. Don't know if a good way to remove the inner seal without damaging it. If it were me, I'd get a new inner seal along with new races to match the bearing brand and start over.

This is my guess also. Bearings should be replaced and a complete unit, not only part as you did. I get your logic but as far as I understand it, they wear together and so become a mated pair.

 

[mike93]

This is my guess also. Bearings should be replaced and a complete unit, not only part as you did. I get your logic but as far as I understand it, they wear together and so become a mated pair.

Thank you fellas, I disassembled again this evening, removed seal by putting hub/rotor on spindle, threading on nut and yanking it towards me. Seal appeared undamaged. Drove out old races, installed the ones that came with the KOYO’s, and bam, I was able to install the second thinnest snap ring!

Appreciate everything, this was very frustrating, but I feel like I walked away from it with a lot of knowledge about the front end of this truck thanks to everyone here!

 

[MooseMichaels]

Glad to hear you got it sorted. We're all learning with you.

 

[Army of Juan]

I have your EXACT issue.. Since 1st week of JUNE - this is front right. I've Spent THOUSANDS.. What was supposed to be calipers n pads turned into EVERYTHING.... Driver side went on fine n flush.. Almost everything except the calipers n rotors is from Stealership or Made in Japan/USA grade OEM. The re-man red calipers from rockauto are Garbage IMO. Ring that holds one caliper piston rubber bellow will not stay on. I haven't even used em to know yet. Deal w it later. I'm pulling the entire knuckle as i did notice the bronze bushing not seated and knuckle seal is failing apart. Absolutely obliterated abs sensor getting it out. No worries. Its only $262 EA. w/o tax.. Lol i did.. Buy the Holstein ABS2061 from rockauto for less than half that. Anyone have experience w/these?
I even bought the custom cv puller tool after buying sliding hammer/steering wheel pullers/the big 3 claw pullers from HF. You NAME it.. No go. So close but no.
NEW-Dustcaps/circlips/hub flanges(old one in pic now new) hubnuts/cone washers/hubF studs/flange gaskets/washers/dust shield n gasket/rotors/calipers/brakelines/abs sensors/timken inner & outer bearings & Races/star n claw washers/the 54mm inner n outer nuts/knuckle gasket/knuckle bushings/OEM knuckle bearings/tie rods/freedom offroad UCA's/and almost EVERY bolt and nut serviceable or not.. Camber bolts... Freakin 2 new KO2'$, fluids. Tools. Even the different sized seals for front diffs- just in case! I pull the cv axle out. I ALSO felt like i did something wrong like you mentioned on the staging. I feel like its was binding or restricted. Im stripping and repainting the knuckle when its out and fully servicing it. New is $700 out the door at stealership. I might as well rebuild the LCA's but i NEED this truck moving.. Spend the $40 on brass drift FOR SURE. If i still have the clearance issue i will revisit the new bearing races n the $10 worth of M1 grease in there. But i'm purrdy sure i hammered em in flush and used bearing race drivers n all that. Before i just douse myself in racegas and burn this mf down. Lol! Praying n miller highlifes ✌

 

[badlander]

Something looks whacky with your drive shaft. Doesn't appear to have any grease seal or dust cover on it where it meets the knuckle. In fact it's covered with rust as though it never did.
Is it an aftermarket Axle?

 

[Army of Juan]

I have this seal that goes into the inner side of knuckle-then its the bronze bushing n bearing.
so there's ANOTHER (seal)? that supposed to be on the end of axle that will slide into this oil seal through the knuckle? The driver side didn't have an issue so i didn't run into this before to realize! And toyota parts online confusing. Parts blowout diagrams don't always show everything- like bolts n nuts or option to purchase just a portion of what comes as assemblies sometime. I can't tell if its original cv but i don't see yellow stripes on it lol only other seals i have are the 2 different sized seals for input side of cv shaft and the other is for rear axle if im not mistaken. Thanks for helping! I haven't much experience doing these repairs. Looks like. Heading back to the stealership
*** omg totally right. You are talking about item #12 right!!? Then you go to find it topurchase- ooops not listed 11 to 13 lol that's how i missed it before. I thought #12 was the knuckle seal

 

[Army of Juan]

Tried to Confirm w toyota; they say i have to buy the cv joint KIT part # 43460-69145 For one stupid seal/dustcover/whateva
You have to $pend over $200 dollars to get that seal might as well just buy the whole damn axle. Does Anyone know of another part # for this or aftermarket for these?