Is a front mount Intercooler helpful? (1 Viewer)

[Silveredition]

Gday all,
I am currently staying in the North West of Western Australia for 2 weeks after towing my boat (about 1.5t) up here on a 1400km trip…. My car is a 1988 hj61 manual 12ht with a freshly built engine, GTurbo, PDI front mount Intercooler, Adrad Super louvre radiator, genuine viscous fan hub, genuine thermostat etc… my question, and issue is if people on here think the Intercooler is a hindrance on this sort of trip, doing nothing more than blocking cooling to the radiator and aircond? At a cruising speed of 95km/hr boost pressure is about 8psi, egt’s are 325 degrees Celsius, but coolant temp is 95 - 99 degrees Celsius - the ambient temps are in the mid to high 40 degrees Celsius… the air conditioner is blowing not cool air, and I am wondering if all the Intercooler is doing is to block airflow???
After about 800km into the trip (in the low 40 degrees Celsius ambient temp), with the coolant temp running at 99 degrees Celsius I removed both of my 9” spotlights, and the temp went down to about 95 even though the ambient temp rose to the high 40’s… the coolant (not towing, and in cooler ambient temperatures) usually sits on 84 degrees Celsius or lower for the same speed…
I am thinking of removing my Intercooler when I return home, but would like to hear people’s thoughts first…
Also, I apologise if I don’t reply soon as I have very limited reception here….
Thanks!

 

[mudgudgeon]

You probably shouldn't have a cooling issue cruising at those EGTs and boost.
Are you measuring EGTs at the manifold? Or after the turbo?
This is important to know when diagnosing a problem.

99⁰c is a bit borderline, but if your residue cap is in good condition, and the cooling system is pressurising properly, coolant won't boil until something like 110-120⁰c.
95⁰C is fine all day long.


I think you should check your fan hub is operating correctly as number 1 susoect.
They are really easily overlooked, and at high ambient temps, having it worth at maximum capacity becomes critical.

It's good you have an OEM hub,. But even when new, they aren't necessarily tuned optimally.
They can also leak silicone fluid.

You should be able to hear the fan engage and roar when it's hot and coolant temp is up.
It's common with 80 series fan hubs for people to change the silicone oil to a thicker viscosity oil to get more drive through the fan hub. Not sure how similar your hub is.
Ib did this to my 1HZ Hzj105 fan hub, and on a 48⁰c summer day drove it mercilessly through the mountains in Barrington/Scone area with no issues. ( Was thoroughly pissed off after an argument with missus, and took it out on the cruiser)

There was another Western Australian member (can't think of his username at the moment) on here with GTurbo 80 series who was towing a large boat or van in North Western Australia in summer regularly. (Broome and Port Headland area from memory)

He had a top mount intercooler and was burning up electric fans. I remember he upgraded wiring a couple of times to try to solve the problem.
Then eventually went to a front mount intercooler and solved his cooling issues.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Link below to a post from @SeaJay who is the member I was referring to who changed from to mount to front mount


Post in thread 'The official 1HDT Intercooler thread' The official 1HDT Intercooler thread - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/the-official-1hdt-intercooler-thread.514067/post-12240480

 

[ATL Cruiser]

@mudgudgeon good gracious. 48C is HOT, and I thought Atlanta was hot.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but what radiators do y'all run in the 1HZ-T? Mine has a small leak, so I'm looking to upgrade. Space is at a premium with the front mount PDI intercooler I'm running (and love).

 

[KiwiDingo]

What size intercooler are you running @Silveredition ? I know PDI starting offering smaller cores on the HZ kits due to the very reason you described above with overheating. There's also benifits by getting the cooler mounted as close as possible to the radiator and to fill in any gaps with shrouding and air dams to prevent air taking an easier path around instead of through the radiator.

 

[mudgudgeon]

@mudgudgeon good gracious. 48C is HOT, and I thought Atlanta was hot.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but what radiators do y'all run in the 1HZ-T? Mine has a small leak, so I'm looking to upgrade. Space is at a premium with the front mount PDI intercooler I'm running (and love).

What vehicle?

I was just running an aftermarket OEM replacement aluminium radiator, plastic tanks.
Mine was ADRAD branded (Aussie company) but I'm sure the product is Asian made and would carry many brands.

If the cooling system is up to scratch, and your tune is safe, OEM equivalent should be adequate IME

 

[ATL Cruiser]

What vehicle?

If the cooling system is up to scratch, and your tune is safe, OEM equivalent should be adequate IME

92 HZJ77

Agreed on the stock cooling system. Zero issues so far. Just leaking, so I'll be replacing or repairing it soon anyway.

@KiwiDingo good point on sealing around the PDI intercooler.

 

[mudgudgeon]

92 HZJ77

Agreed on the stock cooling system. Zero issues so far. Just leaking, so I'll be replacing or repairing it soon anyway.

@KiwiDingo good point on sealing around the PDI intercooler.

I know some people struggle with the 75 series as the frontal area on the radiators is relatively small in comparison to an 80 series with the same engine.

I think the problem still comes back to general cooling system, and EGT and boost conditions being optimal.

Lots of the history with turbo charged 1HZs is with poorly matched turbo with inefficient turbines, over-fueled, and low boost

 

[SeaJay]

That was a few years ago, another thing I have done since then is fit the Qikazz fan kit, that made a huge difference

 

[Silveredition]

What size intercooler are you running @Silveredition ? I know PDI starting offering smaller cores on the HZ kits due to the very reason you described above with overheating. There's also benifits by getting the cooler mounted as close as possible to the radiator and to fill in any gaps with shrouding and air dams to prevent air taking an easier path around instead of through the radiator.

The cooler is the first (and only?) one designed by PDI for the square headlight 60… I am not so much worried about the engine overheating, but just the lack or purpose of the cooler at 8psi in 45 degree heat, and the potential of all it doing is blocking off airflow to the air conditioner, causing it to not work…
Does the Intercooler do anything at 8psi?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Intake charge air from the turbo could be as much as 100-120+⁰c at 40⁰c ambient air temp
air temp coming out of the intercooler should be getting close to ambient air temp.
Yes the intercooler is good thing for air intake temp.
BUT the heat from compressed intake air has to go somewhere, and it means your getting heated air through the aircon core, then the radiator.

This is where having your engine fan working at 100% capability gets critical

 

[Silveredition]

Thanks mate, I suppose my main concern was that at 8psi the compressed air wouldn’t be heated enough to warrant the FMI… if it is still doing good things then it will stay, and I will look further into the airconditioner system…
For this trip I actually replaced my genuine fan hub with a new Terrain Tamer one to see if there was a difference. On a previous trip in similar temps the coolant temp stabilised at 102 degrees Celsius (on advice from Brian at PDI), but this trip with the Terrain Tamer fan hub was 95 (but without the spotlights…).
I bought the genuine fan hub with me as a spare in case the Terrain Tamer one didn’t perform - and before I left home I opened the genuine one up and put an extra 1/2 a bottle of the genuine Toyota silicone oil into it. I can’t see myself changing it over on this holiday, but might when I get home..
Ps - the egt probe is in the dump pipe, about 50mm from the turbo outlet…

Intake charge air from the turbo could be as much as 100-120+⁰c at 40⁰c ambient air temp
air temp coming out of the intercooler should be getting close to ambient air temp.
Yes the intercooler is good thing for air intake temp.
BUT the heat from compressed intake air has to go somewhere, and it means your getting heated air through the aircon core, then the radiator.

This is where having your engine fan working at 100% capability gets critical

FMI

 

[mudgudgeon]

Sounds good

Ps - the egt probe is in the dump pipe, about 50mm from the turbo outlet…

I'd suggest you do some reading about EGT probe location.
It's close to useless having it after the turbo

 

[coldtaco]

I had overheating issues with my 2H-T powered 75, at ambient temperatures around 25C. I had a front mount intercooler mounted below the radiator, no spot lights. I ended up ordering a custom aluminum radiator from Australia, I had it extended 2" below and changed the intake pipe to continue in the header tank to the fill, to try and force more of a cross flow of the fluid. This radiator did the trick, just forgot to add a drain, so no drain was added

 

[o8ko8k]

Running an air charge cooler on a turbo'ed engine should never have any negative effects on the engine's thermal management (generic statement). If your AC is blowing "not cold" you have other issues with it. You can arrange a test of that pretty easy without removing the air charge cooler, blow air on the front of the running engine, run your AC w/ zero turbo boost, or better yet get an AC manifold it and check the pressure(s).

Air charge cooler will dump some heat up front yes, but the reduction in system heat at that point is more than the sum of it's parts. If you dont dump it up front, your engine will eat it instead and then that heat just has to work its way back through the block, to water jacket, to radiator, and out the exhaust; way less efficient. Internal combustion is heat differential, heat in vs heat out is work that moves the vehicle, too hot on the input means more heat absorption in the system vs doing intended work. Not to mention the ignition timing will retard with the cooler up front (i.e. less fuel trying to turn your engine in reverse). It will also Increase volumetric efficiency, colder air is more dense. Your way better off with the cooler vs no cooler. Yes the radiators down stream will work slightly less efficiently, but this is by far the bast place to manage the heat vs pushing it through the engine.

I added a 1" poly spacer on the hood mounts to give better airflow over the engine, I also took some old automotive cooling hose and sealed up all around the shroud for the engine fan, my AC blows cold with 200F+ air charge cooler temp differential completely covering the AC radiator. I run a turbo'ed 2h mind you so its not the best at managing the extra heat of driving it faster than 60mph and the extra fuel from the turbo.

 

[SeaJay]

Thanks mate, I suppose my main concern was that at 8psi the compressed air wouldn’t be heated enough to warrant the FMI… if it is still doing good things then it will stay, and I will look further into the airconditioner system…
For this trip I actually replaced my genuine fan hub with a new Terrain Tamer one to see if there was a difference. On a previous trip in similar temps the coolant temp stabilised at 102 degrees Celsius (on advice from Brian at PDI), but this trip with the Terrain Tamer fan hub was 95 (but without the spotlights…).
I bought the genuine fan hub with me as a spare in case the Terrain Tamer one didn’t perform - and before I left home I opened the genuine one up and put an extra 1/2 a bottle of the genuine Toyota silicone oil into it. I can’t see myself changing it over on this holiday, but might when I get home..
Ps - the egt probe is in the dump pipe, about 50mm from the turbo outlet…


FMI

have you looked in the air-con sight glass, should be no bubbles when on just above idle. If there is then you need gas.
102c towing isnt too bad, but as the terain tamer one droped it back to 95c you have found your problem.

 

[Dougal]

Sounds like you need to reorganise to put the AC condenser in front of the intercooler. Or fit gruntier fans if you want the AC to behave better.

Intercooler will add like 3C to the airflow across it at towing speeds. Your coolant temps are where you'd expect them to be. 100C is hot but under control.

 

[Silveredition]

Thanks all for the replies - as previously stated, I have limited reception, but am reading everyone’s responses and really appreciate the input! When I am back home in a weeks time I will try to respond with more detail as it takes too long to load at the moment!!

 

[Silveredition]

have you looked in the air-con sight glass, should be no bubbles when on just above idle. If there is then you need gas.
102c towing isnt too bad, but as the terain tamer one droped it back to 95c you have found your problem.

I haven’t looked into the sight glass, but the 99 down to 95/ 96 was after removing the 2 x 9” spotlights (same Terrain Tamer fan hub…)
Last year, when the coolant stabilised at 102, the road temp was 60 degrees Celsius… with the genuine fan hub…
Today, with the ambient temps in the mid 30’s the aircond was blowing cooler than it has all trip, and the coolant temp was sitting between 83 - 88 depending on speed and driving with or into the wind (not towing)…