Installing Transmission - How bad did I mess up? (1 Viewer)

[CUSailor]

So. First of all I'll say that I know I shouldn't have done it this way, I was hopped up on Turkey and didn't do my research.

Reinstalling the transmission of my '79 FJ-40 we got the splines engaged (wiggled the flywheel and could see it turning the transmission). We then tightened the bolts in order to pull the transmission into the bell housing (I know now after reading that is a big no-no). We brought it in from about 2 inches (used slightly longer transmission housing bolts than were standard). Pushing on it and wiggling it back and forth didn't accomplish much and the jack we had it on was providing enough resistance that it was fighting us more than helping us, we honestly thought it was safer to do it that way than rocking it and pushing it while underneath the vehicle.

We did use the clutch alignment tool when installing the new clutch and the pilot bearing did fit on the transmission before installation. The flywheel now is very difficult to turn by hand (is that normal?). Is there anything else we should look for before trying to crank it? At this point I'd probably have it towed to a professional than try to remove and replace again, the setup we had just made my helper and I uncomfortable from a safety standpoint. Or at this point should we just try to crank it and hope for the best?

 

[John McVicker]

Could be normal engine compression you're feeling. Take all the spark plugs out and then try to turn the flywheel.

 

[S4Cruiser]

Turning the flywheel with or without the trans installed should require about the same effort UNLESS the trans is in gear...which would increase the effort needed to turn it.

 

[CUSailor]

Thanks for the reply John,
We've been doing a lot of work on this sucker, spark plugs weren't in. Had no problem turning it from underneath two handed in order to set the gaps for the rockers and then later to install the pressure plate for the clutch and torque appropriately.

We rotated it by hand to get the splines aligned, once we saw we were getting engagement with the input shaft we didn't try it again until it was about an inch from being complete. When we did that we couldn't get it to spin. Granted it wasn't in all the way yet, so maybe it was at a slight angle. Once we did get it tightened down we just walked away and had a beer or two and nursed our busted knuckles. Resistance from tightening the bolts never really changed as we were tightening. No pops and the transmission did mate with the dowels on the bell-housing without any hesitation.

What I guess I need to know is what is the main risk for tightening the transmission to the bellhousing with the bolts? Is the risk missing the pilot bearing and pushing it out? is it stripping the bolts because we were turning them with the weight of the tranny on them? I'm trying to think back from worst case scenario. If worse case scenario means I destroy my transmission when I try to start....I'll have to pull it an reinstall. If worst case is that I stall the engine and tear up the clutch plate, then I'll go for it and cross my fingers.

I still need to install a clutch cylinder and slave before I can push the clutch in to take pressure off the plate, though I'm not sure that would have anything to do with it..correct?

Anyone coming across this thread, if you say to yourself (well he pulled it off I'll give it a shot...don't...the stress isn't worth it)

 

[CUSailor]

Turning the flywheel with or without the trans installed should require about the same effort UNLESS the trans is in gear...which would increase the effort needed to turn it.

Thanks Jon,
We "THINK" we had it in neutral. I'm kicking myself for not being 100% positive, yet here we are. If we did have it in neutral and we weren't able to turn the flywheel when it was installed, do you have any advice on where we could check, or is the answer to pull the transmission and start from scratch?

If it was left in gear, would the difficulty in turning the transmission be such that we probably wouldn't be able to do it with two hands laying on our back or would it still be fairly easy to turn, just a bit more difficult? Obviously all drive shafts are off and shifter is out.

 

[S4Cruiser]

Depending on which gear the trans is in and then if the tcase is in 2wd/4wd low or high...it could be a significant difference in effort required to rotate the flywheel.

If everything is in neutral and the flywheel is very had to turn (and no plugs in like you mentioned) then either 1) there is something within the bell-housing is restricting the flywheel rotation or 2) the input shaft of the trans pressed back into the case and has caused something to bind up?

My money is on it being in gear!

 

[John McVicker]

My $$ is also that it was in gear.

 

[CUSailor]

Good to know. I'll get back down there this weekend and put the shifter in and play around with it and see what happens. Sounds like if it is worst case then I'll know real quick. So is the main reason to not tighten with the bolts to avoid damaging the bolts/mis-aligning and damaging the clutch plate?

 

[reddingcruiser]

Get the slave cylinder hooked up and install the shift lever. Put it in gear and push in the clutch, the output shaft should turn freely. If it does, I would be less worried you did something wrong. If it doesn't, there is almost certainly something wrong. (Are you sure you have the clutch disk in the correct orientation??)

If you have to pull it out and if you haven't already, buy two longer bolts (3" +/_) with the same thread as the transmission bolts, cut the heads off, taper the ends, insert them into the upper bell housing bolt locations and use the to guide the trans into the bell housing. Once you have the trans up to the bell housing, remove the guides and put in the other mounting bolts. IMO, if you have to 'pull' the trans into the bell housing you should be asking why.

 

[John McVicker]

For me anyway, the main reason to avoid pulling it in with the bolts is the fear of breaking off one of the ears because of too much pulling.

 

[CUSailor]

Get the slave cylinder hooked up and install the shift lever. Put it in gear and push in the clutch, the output shaft should turn freely. If it does, I would be less worried you did something wrong. If it doesn't, there is almost certainly something wrong. (Are you sure you have the clutch disk in the correct orientation??)

If you have to pull it out and if you haven't already, buy two longer bolts (3" +/_) with the same thread as the transmission bolts, cut the heads off, taper the ends, insert them into the upper bell housing bolt locations and use the to guide the trans into the bell housing. Once you have the trans up to the bell housing, remove the guides and put in the other mounting bolts. IMO, if you have to 'pull' the trans into the bell housing you should be asking why.

I'm sure of only what I'm doing when I do it, and then immediately question it afterwards. Clutch disk we double checked that we were putting in correctly. The "bulk" of it if that's the right way to phrase it was toward the rear of the vehicle, the splines in the clutch plate were protruding towards the rear. We actually did...kind of do the trick with the longer bolts. We had four 100mm that I cut the tops off. lined it up with that best we could pushed forward till we had some issues with the floor jacks and realized the transmission needed to come off the floor jacks. Then replaced one at a time the long bolts with some shorter ones and tightened those up alternating top and bottom to try and pull it in evenly.

 

[John in Utah]

I would pull it back and take a look. When lined up straight they really do just slip right in; the peace of mind is worth half a day of labor IMO. When I’ve had to pull a trans myself I set up a safety belay from the top with a beam braced across the doors. You don’t need to drop it, just pull it back a bit and inspect.

 

[CUSailor]

That's a really clever setup. I'll need to see if we can rig something like that when I'm down there. We were using a cheap harbor freight transmission jack that didn't balance very well, the transmission tipped over once, luckily didn't crash hard and no one was close. We were raising it from behind while someone tried to reach through from above and man handle it into position. They were able to keep grips on it and ease it down to lay on its side. When we got it back up right we used a floor jack to help support the transfer case side so it wouldn't fall over again. Problem was, trying to get all of those jacks to move forward at the same time. It was a clusterfk to say the least.

IF we have to do it again, is it pretty well established that a cherry picker is the way to go? Whenever I've seen people give breakdowns on how to do it they typically use that, although most have a much larger transmission hump panel to lower the hoist through compared to the later 40's. I think yours John is about the same amount of room though and it looks like it's working well for you. A good cherry picker is probably cheaper than paying someone to do it.

 

[John in Utah]

I prefer having only a rolling floor jack under the balance point, then rig a backup to hold it from above while I manhandle it from below. The system in that photo is overly complicated, a climbing knot designed to allow incremental lower, tie off, lower, etc.

If you’re just pulling it back to have a look and reinstall, you could tie the trans off at a fixed height with a strap, throw a jack under it and you should be able to pull it straight back, have a look, and then give it another go.

 

[CUSailor]

I like that idea a lot. My life insurance doesn't increase till the new year. I think that if I'm still spending time and money on this thing come 2019, my wife may see the solution to many problems if I'm still messing around underneath that thing with an off balance transmission and a tilty floor jack.