Injector pump woes (1 Viewer)

[Turbobrick211]

Hello fellow diesel friends.

I recently started having a strange issue with my 1HD engine in my 1992 HDJ81. A little back story. I have owned this rig for just over a year. About 6 months ago, I started having fuel issues. In part of my diagnostics, I removed the ACSD (sp?) device, and found it to be broken. The tab had broken off of the shaft. So, I bought a block off plate, and got rid of the device. Everything was good. I also replaced the primer pump/fuel filter housing. Which solved my fuel starvation issues. Fast forward to about 2 months ago, the first time the temps dropped below 50 degrees outside, and my engine started doing some weird things. It would idle really low, and die at stop lights, and sometimes when I was slowing down and the transmission would downshift. I got pretty good at shifting into neutral and restarting the engine. Well, now it is really bad, and it dies all the time. So, a couple weeks ago, I thought I would be smart and do a basic injector pump setup. I pulled the boost compensator off the top of the pump, pulled out the pin, made a grindy mod to the pin so I could easily put it back in (thank you webs), and proceeded to spin the star wheel, adjust the fuel pin angle, and then tweak all the other things. However, now it is worse than ever. It won't idle at anything below 1000rpm, it hunts at idle, and still dies if I slow down really fast to a stop. And, it has way less power then it used to.

Basically, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to tune this Injector Pump. I have read a lot about how to adjust/tune these things, but there are so many contradicting methods, that I don't know what to believe. I don't know where to start. Where should the star wheel be? From the top, or from the bottom? I don't know. Where is the best position for the fuel pin? I don't know. Maybe my pump is just damaged from the ACSD being broken, and metal chunks got in the pump and caused wear? I don't know. What I would like, is to learn how to start from scratch, do a basic baseline adjustment on this thing. I would love to get the idle back down to 850, and get it to catch the idle when I let off the pedal. Right now, when I let off the gas pedal, I have to give it a little rev before it hits bottom, otherwise it will die. I am SOOO frustrated right now.

If anyone can give me some insight, I would be very thankful. I am planning on pulling the pump and sending it out to get rebuilt soon, as soon as I get my fresh pump back from the diesel shop for my Corolla and can get that thing back on the road again. But yeah, if any of this makes sense to anyone, and can give me some starting points, I would really appreciate it!!

Thank y'all for listening to my rant, and I hope someone out there can give me some guidance. Merry Christmas to all of you, I hope you all have a wonderful time with family. I am very blessed to be a part of this impressive community.

-Eric Mollerstuen

 

[kevin in okinawa]

wish I could help but I know zero about the IP, but here's a bump to the top for smart people to see!

 

[Loober]

The type of symptoms you are describing will not be solved with tuning, there is something more serious going on. The fact the ACSD s*** the bed inside the pump is a more likely culprit. I would get the pump rebuilt and start from there.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

I agree with @Loober . There is something really wrong inside your pump. Best bet is to pull it off and have it repaired or replaced.

If you download the 1HDT manual, there is a big section on the injection pump if you really want to know the nitty gritty (attached section of interest).

 

[IanB]

If the tab had already broken off the ACSD when it was removed, then that metal has already gone through your pump...I think you need to start with a pump rebuild and see what got damaged inside. You'd be wasting your time trying to tune a compromised IP.

 

[Turbobrick211]

The tab came out when I removed the ACSD, but I am pretty sure there were some shavings in there. I cleaned the crap out of the body, but who knows. The thing is, the truck has been running absolutely fantastic. It still runs pretty good, I just think I messed up the settings and am trying to get it back to a good place. However, I am planning on pulling the pump to have it gone through in a couple months. In the mean time, I would like to get it to idle correctly.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

The tab came out when I removed the ACSD, but I am pretty sure there were some shavings in there. I cleaned the crap out of the body, but who knows. The thing is, the truck has been running absolutely fantastic. It still runs pretty good, I just think I messed up the settings and am trying to get it back to a good place. However, I am planning on pulling the pump to have it gone through in a couple months. In the mean time, I would like to get it to idle correctly.

You could try removing the fuel cut solenoid to see if there is any debris in the screen under it. ( see image in page 32 of pdf I posted above ).

 

[PIP]

I have a VE pump Cummins in my Ford Superduty. I am not familiar with Toyota diesels, but if it is a VE pump I may be able to help.

If it is running good otherwise, no unusual smoke, cold starts are good I would first inspect the main case pressure regulator valve. This is in the front of the case, installed from the top. Pull it out and look for anything unusual. A VE pump with a good distributor head and an idle runability issue would lead me to look at low/erratic case pressure when RPM's drop.

I would never suggest messing with the aneroid and/or grinding a stock fuel pin as a solution to anything. Rotating the stock fuel pin to a deeper setting will increase fueling a little without screwing anything up.

If you want more performance you should increase the full load screw. This will increase maximum fueling, not increase the rate at which it occurs. What that means is it will make more power without slobbering smoke and pissing folks off.

If you own a VE you should own a VE pump tool kit and a timing device. You should verify your pump's actual timing as part of "baselining" your engine. Most people don't, but it can be an eye opener to find your pump timing is nowhere near where you thought it was.

 

[Squash]

As mentioned above.
Remove the solenoid and clean the screen.
The screen most likely is causing fuel starvation at idle and low rpm.
I'm guessing that when driving and skinny pedal is engaged she runs ok?

 

[Turbobrick211]

Awesome information! Thank you GTSSportCoupe! I was not aware of that little filter screen. I will check that out tonight and see what I find. And thank you PIP for the info on the pressure regulator. And to answer Squash, yes the truck runs great otherwise, makes good boost (around 12-14psi) and pulls strong. I do need to baseline the injector timing, and No I don't have a VE pump tool kit yet. Any suggestions on a good took kit to purchase for this pump?

 

[PIP]

Awesome information! Thank you GTSSportCoupe! I was not aware of that little filter screen. I will check that out tonight and see what I find. And thank you PIP for the info on the pressure regulator. And to answer Squash, yes the truck runs great otherwise, makes good boost (around 12-14psi) and pulls strong. I do need to baseline the injector timing, and No I don't have a VE pump tool kit yet. Any suggestions on a good took kit to purchase for this pump?

The VE timing tool is a dial indicator with an adapter to screw into the plug in the center of the distributor head so you can measure the camplate lift. Any result for a search of "Bosch VE timing tool" will work.

The tool kit is a socket set that lets you work on the pump. It has all the needed sockets to remove the tri-lobe bolts. This is not required, but I would recommend it. It is cheap and VE pumps are dirt simple inside. With a clean bench and reasonable mechanical ability you can take one completely apart and put it completely together again with success.

 

[Turbobrick211]

Thank you PIP. Good info. Next question, how do I remove the fuel cut solenoid to check the filter? I took a quick look when I got home from work, but it looks like I might need to pull the intake manifold to get to it. Is it possible without doing that? I checked the manual, and it doesn't give much help.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Thank you PIP. Good info. Next question, how do I remove the fuel cut solenoid to check the filter? I took a quick look when I got home from work, but it looks like I might need to pull the intake manifold to get to it. Is it possible without doing that? I checked the manual, and it doesn't give much help.

I think checking timing of the pump is a good starting point.
If the ACSD didn't leave any metal inside, you might be lucky.

If the engine is running well at higher loads, higher RPM, I doubt a blocked filter screen is your issue. It would be more likely to show as a problem under load than at idle.

Check timing as per the FSM instructions linked by @GTSSportCoupe above. It's a fairly simple process.
My memory is the timing tool goes into one of the injector ports, not the centre bolt as described above, but memory plays tricks.

After you have timing set, you can work at finding a base line.

There's some good descriptions and chat on this in the tread line below, starting at approx page 40

The Official 1HD-T/FT Fuel Pump Mod Tuning Thread

With a lot of people installing aftermarket turbo's and looking for some serious performance gains I am hoping to create a thread to help people properly tune and understand how to tune the 1hd-t/ft and even 1hz pumps fitted with a boost compensator or aneroid. Most people have seen this post...

forum.ih8mud.com

I wouldn't be pulling the pump apart beyond what you've done with the aneroid pin.
On one hand they are simple, on the other, an untrained eye isn't gonna see anything less than a major problem, at which point it needs to be in the hands of a specialist anyway.
Some shops won't be interested in taking on a rebuild after you've torn it apart

 

[PIP]

Check timing as per the FSM instructions linked by @GTSSportCoupe above. It's a fairly simple process.
My memory is the timing tool goes into one of the injector ports, not the centre bolt as described above, but memory plays tricks.

The VE is a distributor pump. By definition that means it only has one, central moving element. If you remove the delivery valves from a VE distributor head you will find there is nothing under them but a small hole.

The indicator goes in the hole in the center of the dist head. There's a plug with a 12mm head. Remove that and install your indicator.

I didn't follow your advice. The VE pump on my truck had a strange leak from the main case so I pulled it and swapped on a spare. That spare was a dud. I pulled one off a parts engine that got dusted and I had one already taken apart and cleaned up, but it has a bad distributor head. Where I'm at right now is I have four VE pumps all torn completely apart on a 5 ft x 5 ft table and I have about $500 in parts on the way to put all four of them back together like new. Out of four pumps three needed camplates and rollers and two needed distributor heads.

When I take them apart I measure and make notes of all the adjustments. I scribe alignment marks on the throttle shaft. Keep all the shims with their respective mating parts.

 

[mudgudgeon]

The VE is a distributor pump. By definition that means it only has one, central moving element. If you remove the delivery valves from a VE distributor head you will find there is nothing under them but a small hole.

The indicator goes in the hole in the center of the dist head. There's a plug with a 12mm head. Remove that and install your indicator.

I didn't follow your advice. The VE pump on my truck had a strange leak from the main case so I pulled it and swapped on a spare. That spare was a dud. I pulled one off a parts engine that got dusted and I had one already taken apart and cleaned up, but it has a bad distributor head. Where I'm at right now is I have four VE pumps all torn completely apart on a 5 ft x 5 ft table and I have about $500 in parts on the way to put all four of them back together like new. Out of four pumps three needed camplates and rollers and two needed distributor heads.

When I take them apart I measure and make notes of all the adjustments. I scribe alignment marks on the throttle shaft. Keep all the shims with their respective mating parts.

Congrats

I've had them apart and back together too, and for a guy that doesn't know where to start with tuning one, tearing one down is highly unlikely to provide the outcome he needs.

Make your own decision

 

[KiwiDingo]

No better way to learn how to tune one then to tear one down and see how it all works

I honestly don't know why people say not to do things like this. There's so much information and free help online these days for doing stuff yourself at home there's really no reason not to have a go at anything. Unless you rely on the car as your sole daily driver and need it back on the road the same day just have a crack. If so you can even find stuffed pumps online for free or really cheap you can have a play with to learn how it all works.

 

[Squash]

If the ACSD did wear you will have shavings!
The finest shavings may slip by but trust me there are shavings.
The only way to get mine home was to keep high RPM's because at any idle she would stall.
The screen is quick, easy and cheap.
Seems like you caught this early therefore you probably won't have any internal pump wear.
In my case it was an $80.00 part because I really pounded as it was a tank of fuel to make it home.

 

[Turbobrick211]

Thank you all for the good advice. I ran out of time to check the screen last night, but will take a look tonight. Also, I'm looking at dial indicator sets for setting the pump timing. I found a few different kits, and wanted some advice.

This one from Amazon seems legit:

Amazon product ASIN B07MSCGPGW
And this one from Ebay looks like it moves the indicator away from the pump a little, which might be helpful, but not sure.

VE Fuel Injection Injector Pump Timing Set up Tool W/ Dial Indicator For Toyota | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for VE Fuel Injection Injector Pump Timing Set up Tool W/ Dial Indicator For Toyota at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Again, thanks for all the help and I hope to have some results from the screen investigation tomorrow.

 

[PIP]

The Amazon set is exactly what I use. It works fine. The other one looks fine too.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Thank you all for the good advice. I ran out of time to check the screen last night, but will take a look tonight. Also, I'm looking at dial indicator sets for setting the pump timing. I found a few different kits, and wanted some advice.

This one from Amazon seems legit:

Amazon product ASIN B07MSCGPGW
And this one from Ebay looks like it moves the indicator away from the pump a little, which might be helpful, but not sure.

VE Fuel Injection Injector Pump Timing Set up Tool W/ Dial Indicator For Toyota | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for VE Fuel Injection Injector Pump Timing Set up Tool W/ Dial Indicator For Toyota at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Again, thanks for all the help and I hope to have some results from the screen investigation tomorrow.

I have one similar to the Amazon one linked.
It works but you need to use extensions to get the dial gauge clear of injector lines. Too short and it won't fit between lines, too long and there's not enough room.
The eBay one is the same style as the Toyota special service tool