Injection Pump RPM sensor (1 Viewer)

[danhr]

I swaped in a 1KZ-T in a BJ74. Now the rpm issue arose since the old system was engine-rpm from tranny.

1KZ-T has the rpm sensor in its injection pump.

Can anyone tell me what kind of output does this sensor in IP produce (pulse/voltage )?

I am working on a project and I need some detailed specifications.

I also need to know same about 2C Toyota engines.



Pictures of the Toyota 2C IP with rpm sensor:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2504/46891960.jpg

On left side IP without sensor on right side IP with sensor:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9954/88228187.jpg

 

[roscoFJ73]

I swaped in a 1KZ-T in a BJ74. Now the rpm issue arose since the old system was engine-rpm from tranny.

1KZ-T has the rpm sensor in its injection pump.

Can anyone tell me what kind of output does this sensor in IP produce (pulse/voltage )?

I am working on a project and I need some detailed specifications.

I also need to know same about 2C Toyota engines.



Pictures of the Toyota 2C IP with rpm sensor:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2504/46891960.jpg

On left side IP without sensor on right side IP with sensor:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9954/88228187.jpg

They appear to be using the same pick up sensor as the 1HZ 1HD T.
The FSM says to test the resistance with an ohmmeter and it should be 600-800.

Whats the big project?
If you are trying to get a tacho working ,I think you need to look at the tacho specs.
There is scant information about the pick up sensor

1HZ sensor

 

[Tapage]

yes the only info available at the FSM about the tach IP sensor it's measure the Ohm resistance ... though it produce low V pulse .. but that only my thought ..

 

[danhr]

roscoFJ73:


Thank you.

For the 1KZ-T ... I am just trying to figure out how to make the tach work.

For the 2C engine... I have a homemade generator for which I want to build 'automatic speed adjuster' so that the engine rpm remains 1500 with or without load. The original plan is to read up the rpm from this pick up sensor and a microcontroller will adjust the revolutions of the engine via a servo motor. I do not know what kind of voltage and pluse I am going to deal with from this pickup sensor.

If anyone of you can check the output... it will be great. I cannot check it out myself since I cannot install this IP for now. (long story)

Tapage:

Thanks.

 

[danhr]

I just checked the ohms using a Digital Multi Meter and it is showing 0.875 K ohms or 875 ohms.

 

[roscoFJ73]

roscoFJ73:


Thank you.

For the 1KZ-T ... I am just trying to figure out how to make the tach work.

For the 2C engine... I have a homemade generator for which I want to build 'automatic speed adjuster' so that the engine rpm remains 1500 with or without load. The original plan is to read up the rpm from this pick up sensor and a microcontroller will adjust the revolutions of the engine via a servo motor. I do not know what kind of voltage and pluse I am going to deal with from this pickup sensor.

If anyone of you can check the output... it will be great. I cannot check it out myself since I cannot install this IP for now. (long story)

Tapage:

Thanks.

I just checked the ohms using a Digital Multi Meter and it is showing 0.875 K ohms or 875 ohms.

Not sure about the voltage pulse but my auto electrician said it was "small"
I think it gets its voltage from the dash,does that sound right??

 

[roscoFJ73]

I just checked the ohms using a Digital Multi Meter and it is showing 0.875 K ohms or 875 ohms.

They aint cheap. Dealers in oz want about $250-300AUD. Used units were non existant when I asked.
Japan4x4 might be the best if that one wont work.

 

[danhr]

roscoFJ73:

I am not sure if it gets any voltage. I doubt though (if I have to guess). This needs to be checked... but how.

Can you ask anyone if this pick up sensor senses (or is located infront of) a gear (toothed wheel)?

The ohm reading is slightly above factory but I think it will be ok. Unless anyone can confirm this too.

 

[Tapage]

The ohm reading is slightly above factory but I think it will be ok. Unless anyone can confirm this too.

IIRC mine was over 800 ohm .. when I take the readings ..

 

[Christian]

Hey guys!

I know I'm picking up on an old thread, but I have the exact same problem to solve, I want to connect a VDO tach to the sensor. Anybody got any info? I can tell that there's a toothed wheel behind the sensor...

 

[rockcrawler]

roscoFJ73:


Thank you.

For the 1KZ-T ... I am just trying to figure out how to make the tach work.

For the 2C engine... I have a homemade generator for which I want to build 'automatic speed adjuster' so that the engine rpm remains 1500 with or without load. The original plan is to read up the rpm from this pick up sensor and a microcontroller will adjust the revolutions of the engine via a servo motor. I do not know what kind of voltage and pluse I am going to deal with from this pickup sensor.

If anyone of you can check the output... it will be great. I cannot check it out myself since I cannot install this IP for now. (long story)

Tapage:

Thanks.

Don't see what the problem is. All you need to do is run the output of the sensor into an op amp and feed the ouput of that to an MCU I/O pin and bobs your uncle. You are going to have to do that anyway.

 

[danhr]

rockcrawler:

So where were you the past few months?


I happen to do some work on it. I checked the output of the sensor, which is a sin wave with varying amplidude and frequency depending on the toothed wheel speed. I used (like you suggested) an op amp to make that sine a square wave.

I have pics of the internals of the IP as well. There is a toothed wheel having 23 teeth just infront of the sensor (it's the governor). I can share details if anyone is interested.


The thing that bothers me now is that I am not able to calculate the rpm. I do not know the calculations behind so that I have a digital count of the rpm (which I want to display in digital format).

Christian:

Post link of the guage

 

[Christian]

Hi Danhr

I have found a PDF of one of the tachs, it describes that the tach can be set up to recieve signal from a pulse signal from 0.5 to 399.99 pulses per revolution. The PDF is here:
http://usa.vdo.com/NR/rdonlyres/E2C...urMeterAlternatorandInductiveandGenerator.pdf

As far as I can work out the dieselpump rotates one half turn each time the engine turns once. Given the 23 tooth count that you stated that gives 11.5 pulses per rev right?
Am i then correct to assume that I can hook the two wires from the pickup to the tach, set it at 11.5 pulses, and that's it?

All of the tachs can be set up to run with a signal from the alternators W termination, and using the pulse from that, does that mean that they can use the pulse from the original sensor in the pump too?

 

[rockcrawler]

typo

rockcrawler:

So where were you the past few months?


I happen to do some work on it. I checked the output of the sensor, which is a sin wave with varying amplidude and frequency depending on the toothed wheel speed. I used (like you suggested) an op amp to make that sine a square wave.

I have pics of the internals of the IP as well. There is a toothed wheel having 23 teeth just infront of the sensor (it's the governor). I can share details if anyone is interested.


The thing that bothers me now is that I am not able to calculate the rpm. I do not know the calculations behind so that I have a digital count of the rpm (which I want to display in digital format).

Christian:

Post link of the guage

If I was doing this I'd get it all going including the display and then work on the RPM calc function, start of with 23:1, that way you have some sort of indication and aren't completely in the dark, or even try Christians theory of 11.5:1

I have been giving your interesting project some thought, these are some 2c's of the top of my head;

For a microcontroller circuit to take control of a motor without human supervision it will need to have some human operator intelligence built in for safety reasons. For this the MCU will need more feedback from the motor than just RPM. In the very least oil pressure and coolant temperature. I would probably include vibration and smoke/fire sensors as well. I would not use the internal watchdog timer but add an external chip for this and be very careful where to place its reset pulses in the code. Also another consideration I have is what if the control circuit fails? There has to be some fail-safe way (preferably mechanically) to shut the motor off.

...does that mean that they can use the pulse from the original sensor in the pump too?

I'd say no. Sensors like that give out a very weak signal that needs to be buffered otherwise you overload it and get nothing.

 

[rockcrawler]

Christian I just had a look at that pdf.

It mentions in "Function Pulse" - Entry of known pulse count per revolution for: - Induction transmitter

You can always just try it and see if it picks up the pulse, won't do any harm.

edit: you'll need something like this in order to calibrate RPM.
Digital Tachometer - Jaycar Electronics
And check that whatever pin you connect sensor to has no power on it, always pays to be careful.

 

[Christian]

That tachometer is KEWL! I thought test equipment like that was a lot more expensive!

I just had a talk with the VDO importer and tech here in Denmark, and he said that they had tachs that worked perfectly on an induction pulse, but it was only the models with hour-counters that did. Im fine with having a hour-counter!

 

[rockcrawler]

Yeah very affordable and lots of uses for it.

That VDO tach you have looks like a very nice unit, you've inspired me to get one myself VDO has always made excellent stuff.

 

[danhr]

At 1500 rpm the output voltage of the sensor is ~ 0.6VAC

rockcrawler:

I have plans on using a stepper motor or servo motor. There will be a mechanical system to stop it from over revving or under revving.

The coolant temprature and oil pressure will be the last on the agenda. It makes it more complicated at this stage

Soon as I get my hands free I will post what I have done. Thank you for all the tips.

 

[rockcrawler]

At 1500 rpm the output voltage of the sensor is ~ 0.6VAC

rockcrawler:

I have plans on using a stepper motor or servo motor. There will be a mechanical system to stop it from over revving or under revving.

The coolant temprature and oil pressure will be the last on the agenda. It makes it more complicated at this stage

Soon as I get my hands free I will post what I have done. Thank you for all the tips.

No problem and looking forward to seeing it, great project

 

[Christian]

Just a little update, the tach works fine, and is very easy to set, so thumbs up from here!