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- #81
Are you a lawyer?
Update: 5W-30 & Heavier Recommended RoTW (4 Viewers)
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Are you a lawyer?
Not the first time I've been called that!!! But, no, I'm not. If law was logic based, I'd probably love it.
bloc
SILVER Star
From my own experience going 10k on 0w-20, with the notable increase in consumption rate around the 8k mark, and in the context of viewing this as a 4-500k+ mile vehicle if well maintained, yes. I do personally believe 5w-30 is a better choice in all but the cold climates.
Emissions spec changes can require thinner oils, while using mechanicals that may work better with other objectives using thicker oils.
To be clear, I’m not a blanket statement “thicker oil is always better” guy. At all. It’s just that in the three years owning and nerding out on this vehicle 5w-30 keeps coming across as a better option for my situation.
As I said your point about startup cam timing was definitely news to me, and the first logical reason (I’ve seen) to support sticking with thinner formulas. But given the way I drive mine, taking care to let even the oil warm up before giving it the beans, I am not concerned about that particular case.
One other point.. the valve train noise being reduced isn’t just a runoff after shutdown issue. It is quite common in these engines well after warmup, let alone getting oil pressure to the top of the engine. 5w-30 seems to have tons of anecdotes indicating it makes this much quieter.
Edit to note: this will all likely seem disjointed as I’m doing it on a phone screen between stints on my way to utah. Apologies if I’m repeating stuff.
I brought another potential answer to the question posed, not necessarily my point of view. I am a person who is able to look at a situation objectively, and then make a decision based upon my use case. My operating temperature range goes from about 0F to 115F ambient... so there is no justification for 0W-20. 5W30 might be a bit iffy on the hottest of days, but 5W40 covers the full scale. I also don't "start and drive" my vehicles. It has nothing to do with some perceived conspiracy, engineering sacrifice, anecdotal accounts written on the internet, or a desire to be "right".
And as I mentioned in a previous post, the filters are far more important than the oil. A $20/qt full synthetic run to a 10k interval on a poor quality filter is going to cause much more damage than a cheap generic oil changed on a 3k interval, but using a high quality, synthetic element filter with an appropriate beta ratio for the critical wear particle size present in the engine. The filters can also be quite informative; cutting and inspecting the filter element is a free way to visually see what particulate is being either ingested or generated by the engine.
bloc
SILVER Star
How much can you actually learn from inspecting a filter though? I get that it’s free, but when compared to the feedback you’d get from a proper used oil analysis, I’d argue the additional cost is easily worth it if looking for concrete info on engine wear.
You are right, OA is a far more powerful analytical tool, however filter inspections and OA serve to compliment eachother. Filter inspections are a good "right now" assessment of what is going on with the engine, and can serve as a nice "yup, everything is good" check. Seeing a bunch of sparklies on the filter that respond to a magnet is cause for dropping the pan and valve covers to find out wtf is going on with your crank, rods, cams, or oil pump BEFORE you have a catastrophic engine failure while awaiting your OA results.
On the other hand, OA is a set of data points meant to be used for trending and predictive maintenance. Getting samples with consistent oil age (or mileage) is critical to having a strong understanding of what the engine is doing. I have seen (large, industrial diesel) engines make lead for 3-5 oil changes, and then the issue resolves itself and the engine makes full life. Deciding to roll main or rod bearings based upon the results of a sample size of one is not using OA appropriately. Doing a random sample every now and then, with some low oil age samples mixed in with high oil age samples while not trending them separately can lead to bad data and poor decision making. Also making comparisons when the fresh oil is not consistently the same oil can also lead to confusion. In the end, one needs to decide if the additional cost of routine OA is worth the potential benefits, provided whoever is doing the interpretation is giving useful feedback. For a consumer driving a toyota v8, I'd lean more towards spending the money on more frequent oil changes and good filters.
My reply is more general in nature. (my first post!).
I have a '19 LC that is approaching the 25k miles changing of the "water" (aka 0W-20 oil). Have also wondered about how thin that stuff is. My '13 Taco uses 5w-30 but, in the manual it mentions that 10w-30 can be used (though not "preferred"). So, in the summer; or, when anticipating a long trip I'll do a mix of 5W-30 and 10W-30 to get somewhere in the middle. In my LC manual it also mentions 5W-20 (mostly to get rid of it if you used it in a pinch) but perhaps a mix might be an idea worth considering. Or, perhaps a blend of 0W-20 and 5W-30 to get somewhere around 2.5W-25W.
my two pennies.
enjoy the journey,
keith
Good to hear that.
The manufacturer's specification is 0W20, only 0W20, in ALL temperatures. And there is a relatively strong warning if 5W20 is used. So there is ample justification for 0W20. Thus far, I've seen NO justification for 5W40 or 5W30 or 0W30.
What convinced you to objectively deviate?
Aside from the OEM specification, I also provided part numbers indicating that there were changes in the crankshafts, pistons, and catalytic convertors for the 5.7L engines circa 2012. I intended that as quasi-objective data, especially for the newer model years (2013+). I agree, that doesn't necessarily indicate these changes had anything to do with lubrication and/or downstream emission capture/conversion, but it could've been? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." What were they fixing? Maybe they get a better finish on the crankshaft and piston bearing surfaces now? Maybe the piston rings were revised/improved to reduce oil consumption? Maybe the catalytic convertors were revised to account for different emission outputs?
The reasons I've seen thus far for deviating: (1) assertion without justification that heavier oils will protect these engines better in heat (even though thinner oils cool more and have less heat-generating friction?), (2) heavier oil makes the engine quieter (I confess, that is appealing), (3) the specified oil looks too thin (so does ATF!), (4) other parts of the world specify heavier oils (I still have not seen evidence for that -- only various screen shots from a specification for what I think might be much older models), (5) other Toyota engine families specify heavier oils, so it must be okay for this engine (FWIW, my 1.8L Lexus specifies 0W20, only 0W20, in all temperatures...so what?!?).
Guys, to be clear, I have no desire to use 0W20 -- I don't care. When I go to get oil, all sorts of grades are readily available to me. And the cost difference is negligible. And I, like you, want to take care of my engine AND my catalytic convertors--all items are costly. Anyone who chooses to heavy up, I don't expect you to crater your engine any time soon, nor do I think your catalytic convertors will plug up any time soon. I think you'll be fine. (Well, 40 weight makes me wince uncomfortably).
Totally agree. I'm not trying to get 10k miles out of my oil change. I'm almost 5k miles in on 0W20 with 136k miles. Oil was a tad low when I checked it (~1/8" on the dipstick). I have the oil reminder set at 7500.
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- #89
Manufacturer specification is up to 20w50 elsewhere in the world for the 3Ur.....what are you missing?
Proof. I've addressed that a few times already...what are you missing? Maybe I missed the link or whatever that demonstrates what you are saying?
Ironically, the 'proof' provided thus far (based on a 2001 European specification 'and earlier') doesn't even permit 0W20!! Is this your proof? Seems weak.
Honestly, it would be GREAT if someone can produce ANY sort of evidence that the 5.7L engine, 2013 or newer, specifies ANYTHING other than 0W20. I will be elated and immediately concede.
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- #91
Straight out of 2020 UAE brochure. Part numbers across 2020 3URs internals is identical around the world.
Both pre and post your Euro spec. Also worth noting 0W20 and 5W30 cover identical temperature ranges.
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- Thread starter
- #93
You can find the UAE owners manual on the Toyota.ae site.
I checked there 6 months or so and I could not get the manual. It was painless this time.
I checked there 6 months or so and I could not get the manual. It was painless this time.
So as a South Florida man, what should I run in my LX for the summer. Temps this oil change should range should mostly be between 80-100*F. 20w50? 15w40?
IMO, ambient temperature while a factor, is not the primary driver that dictates the upper oil weights. Casual commuting in 100* temps is not the type of use that calls for 40 and 50 weights. Heavy load use, increased average engine load, extended high speed hauling and driving has far more impact in this regard. Yet even that may not warrant some of the weights being thrown around here.
As a moonlighting engine tuner and engineer involved in a platform that includes engine development, I would very much caution the direction this thread is going. Tossing 40 and 50 weight oils, in an engine primarily spec'd for 20 weights, is not a tailoring. Those are huge fundamental changes. Wear is not just what you guys are thinking and comes in many forms. High oil pressure can be just as damaging as low oil pressure. Wear will come from added internal stresses and pressures that added oil weights in itself creates, especially if the engine never reaches temperatures that would justify such oil weights. The oil pump will have a shorter life. Seals. Everything in the oil circuit will be exposed to higher pressures - creating wear in itself, while just doing light commuting.
I would heed the story from @degmla . Anecdotal, but that's not far from what you could be doing. Far more harm than good.
IMO, 0W-20.
Unless you have some more extreme use case like being heavily modded or towing, where the average hp (heat) output of the engine is elevated. Or you live in a especially hot region like the southwest. Then at most 0W-30 or 5W-30.
Agree. This is what I was conceding to -- only the CONSIDERATION of using 30 weight oil (no heavier). And that was the conclusion of the OP (I note the OP was edited to include the screen shots posted above -- thanks.).
But, reiterating: your USA market owner's manual is very clear in specifying only 0W-20. I'm not under any sort of warranty, so I feel more comfortable deviating with justification.
Nice, thanks for the replies. Toyota 0w-20 it is. No warranty on my vehicle either.
0w20 works but 5w30 makes the engine sound extremely smooth.
The manual (US version) says that 5w30 is recommended while towing but if 5w30 is used then for next oil change use 0w20.
I have been using 5w30 for the last two oil changes, after the 2nd oil change the engine has been smoother than it has ever been. I have alternated between 5w30 and 0w20. I use TRD oil filer (change it every oil change) and AMSOIL OE for 5w30 and signature for 0w20
I must say when using 5w30 there is almost no engine tick sound, in fact after the engine has warmed to operating temperature one can't even tell if the engine is ON while idling.
