if you had a choice... AHC or no? (1 Viewer)

[agaisin]

Cost and reliability aside for a moment - do YOU like the feel of AHC? Some people don't like it even when it's working perfectly, some people love it and would pay thousands to keep it functional for the long haul.

If I were in your situation I would make a point of taking each for as long a test drive as possible in various road conditions (highway speeds on asphalt and concrete, twisties, bumpy pothole filled city streets, etc) to see if you like the feel/handling of AHC or not. You may decide you don't even like the feeling or you may decide it's worth the cost to repair when something fails (and it will eventually and when it does it will be more costly than the standard suspension in parts and labor).

 

[bamachem]

I'm going to go see the NON-AHC truck next week. I'm going to *try* to drive an AHC LX or LC on the same day or as soon as possible to compare the two. If I can get the people with the NON-AHC truck to come off the price a couple G's for the lack of a $4000 option, then I'd take it in a heartbeat.

 

[Tinkerer]

I wonder if this thread gets the "most replies in 24 hours" award?

Of course I have to weigh in:

For my LX usage (mostly on road, light loads), AHC would be my choice if I had lots of time and money to invest to keep it going long term.

Now that I've been driving stock LC suspension fitted LX for comparison, my opinion is that the AHC ride is superior. Also, the height and level control is actually quite useful, for towing etc. loads within rated load range.

But my AHC demanded more than just $2000 in new Accumulators every 10 years. It had a long-running problem that would cause it to go in full-hard limp mode under certain conditions, and it was getting worse. It actually started under warranty but of course the Dealer couldn't find the problem because it would not manifest at the shop. FSM could not help, and my day job doesn't leave time for me to take on a second career troubleshooting vexing AHC problems that elude FSM and Dealer. The point is that AHC is a Rube Goldberg system, and it can indeed send you down a path that drains lots of your time/money finding and fixing more than just simple Accumulator or Sensor failures. I would say most technicians in most shops across the country are clueless about AHC, good luck finding someone honest who really knows it and can troubleshoot more than the simple things.

Just my own experience and .02 worth. (I still miss the AHC ride.... )

 

[agaisin]

I wonder if this thread gets the "most replies in 24 hours" award?

Of course I have to weigh in:

For my LX usage (mostly on road, light loads), AHC would be my choice if I had lots of time and money to invest to keep it going long term.

Now that I've been driving stock LC suspension fitted LX for comparison, my opinion is that the AHC ride is superior. Also, the height and level control is actually quite useful, for towing etc. loads within rated load range.

But my AHC demanded more than just $2000 in new Accumulators every 10 years. It had a long-running problem that would cause it to go in full-hard limp mode under certain conditions, and it was getting worse. It actually started under warranty but of course the Dealer couldn't find the problem because it would not manifest at the shop. FSM could not help, and my day job doesn't leave time for me to take on a second career troubleshooting vexing AHC problems that elude FSM and Dealer. The point is that AHC is a Rube Goldberg system, and it can indeed send you down a path that drains lots of your time/money finding and fixing more than just simple Accumulator or Sensor failures. I would say most technicians in most shops across the country are clueless about AHC, good luck finding someone honest who really knows it and can troubleshoot more than the simple things.

Just my own experience and .02 worth. (I still miss the AHC ride.... )

You summed that up pretty well - your description of tracking down issues is dead on. I feel like there are sometimes ghosts that are difficult if not impossible to track down without log data of exactly what the road conditions were and what the system was doing (yeah I don't think I can get that). SO most of the time I like the way it works and sometimes I question if it's working properly but it would take $$$$ and either a very trusty mechanic or a lot of work on my part (and more skill/knowledge than I currently have) to tear everything apart and do diagnostics on each part of the system. So for now I am happier than I am bothered by the suspension, but at that tipping point I'll have to make a decision to either swap out or dedicate time and funds to troubleshooting.

In terms of feel/handling, how would you describe the AHC vs. LC Stock? Have you considered trying Bilstein shocks (assuming your complaint about the LC stock ones is that they're too soft)?

 

[uHu]

If you own an AHC truck and could go back in time and have the choice between identical vehicles except one had AHC and the other didn't, which would you choose and why?

When I ordered my first 100, I specified non-ahc, manual, non-this and non-that. But when I found out that delivery time differed with 5 mnths, I took what I could find in stock; i.e. with ahc, and auto-everything. Now, after "testing" the ahc for 10 years, I do like it; and after finding out how the system works, and what to do when it doesn't, I would like to keep it.
If I didn't know how to handle the system myself, I wouldn't get one with ahc.

It is very comfy tho'. Very good on corrugations, whether on dirt or snow. When loaded heavily it tends be a tad too soft, wallowing like the stabilizer bar is too weak.

 

[CrusrDug]

What color is your truck? Is that TCM?[/QUOTE]

The color is Galactic Gray Mica.

Also, I believe 2006 was the only year AHC was an option for the LC.

 

[bamachem]

It was offered in 2006 and 2007. It's almost "standard" and difficult to find one of those years without it.

 

[CrusrDug]

That's exactly what I try to tell people but nope, must be wrong.

What do you expect?......It's not like you have any experience.

That's funny though because people ask questions and hear what they want to hear.

 

[CrusrDug]

It was offered in 2006 and 2007. It's almost "standard" and difficult to find one of those years without it.

That's right! It had to be ordered without. I remember the sales guy saying something like "that's the way they come when we get one". Most people buy LX so when a Toyota dealer orders one, I think they get what they get.

 

[bamachem]

Anybody w/ a 06/07 LC have their window sticker? How much was the AHC option when new? I've seen $4000, but nothing to substantiate that...

 

[agaisin]

Anybody w/ a 06/07 LC have their window sticker? How much was the AHC option when new? I've seen $4000, but nothing to substantiate that...

Obviously the sticker is a better source but I found this which says it adds $1620 to the MSRP:
2006 Toyota Land Cruiser Vehicle Options

That sounds a little low though considering that doesn't even cover the cost of the accumulators

 

[Tinkerer]

You summed that up pretty well - your description of tracking down issues is dead on. I feel like there are sometimes ghosts that are difficult if not impossible to track down without log data of exactly what the road conditions were and what the system was doing (yeah I don't think I can get that). SO most of the time I like the way it works and sometimes I question if it's working properly but it would take $$$$ and either a very trusty mechanic or a lot of work on my part (and more skill/knowledge than I currently have) to tear everything apart and do diagnostics on each part of the system. So for now I am happier than I am bothered by the suspension, but at that tipping point I'll have to make a decision to either swap out or dedicate time and funds to troubleshooting.

In terms of feel/handling, how would you describe the AHC vs. LC Stock? Have you considered trying Bilstein shocks (assuming your complaint about the LC stock ones is that they're too soft)?

I was undecided about keeping it last fall, hoped I could maybe leave an OBDII Scanner connected and maybe see real time data that would help me troubleshoot those occasional "limp mode' problems. Nope, the AHC does not report any codes to an OBDII scanner. The proprietary Toyota scan tool may show AHC codes in real time; it evidently does provide AHC pressures in real time (although you have to apply a correction to estimate actual pressures that way). But I bet that the Toyota Scan Tool costs WAYYY more than I have to spend, so that idea is not practical for a DIYer like me.

So out with the AHC, in with the stock LC setup.

Actually, the stock LC setup is too stiff for my liking, especially the rear, especially on certain road surfaces/bumps. At the same time, the rear load-carrying capacity is not as good as I thought it would be - with a full load of 5 adults, plus 2 children in rearmost folding seats, the rear seems to bottom out on moderate bumps. This is with 100% stock OEM LC shocks, springs, and t-bars.

 

[bamachem]

Obviously the sticker is a better source but I found this which says it adds $1620 to the MSRP:
2006 Toyota Land Cruiser Vehicle Options

That sounds a little low though considering that doesn't even cover the cost of the accumulators

Wow... Only $1620? I was expecting at least double, if not triple that...

 

[bamachem]

Found a 2006 Window Sticker. $1620 is all the AHC with Adjustable Suspension demanded as an option...

 

[nomembername]

That sounds a little low though considering that doesn't even cover the cost of the accumulators

Replacement parts cost is a different scale from factory assembly parts. A starter costs what... 300? 400? For a reman, even... and yet Toyota didn't make that a line item for that amount!

 

[andycanman]

Came close to scrapping mine ahc system but payed the money to have it repaired..and glad i did AHC every time perfect ride no other truck or car i have owned could come close to the ahc ride.

 

[Tinkerer]

Replacement parts cost is a different scale from factory assembly parts. A starter costs what... 300? 400? For a reman, even... and yet Toyota didn't make that a line item for that amount!

OEM parts retail prices at Dealer are upwards of 10 times wholesale. A $500 retail price Accumulator costs Toyota about $50 when they build the vehicle.

Whether an OE manufacturer like Toyota attempts to gouge consumers with option packages on new vehicles depends on several things, including their own build plan vs. predicted consumer demand (e.g. are they building with AHC in a particular production timeframe because it fits their own purposes, or, because they feel people will pay extra for it?). $1620 for AHC on a new vehicle is probably "only" a few hundred dollars profit for Toyota, in the wholesale context of new vehicle production, and it sounds like they were/are building a high % of new vehicles with it, take it or leave it (which means they can't price it too high or vehicle sales will suffer, because a LC is already an expensive vehicle.)

On the other hand, try pricing the total cost of AHC in new parts bought retail from the Dealer - it probably totals more than a really good late model used vehicle would cost, complete.

 

[Tinkerer]

Came close to scrapping mine ahc system but payed the money to have it repaired..and glad i did AHC every time perfect ride no other truck or car i have owned could come close to the ahc ride.

Like I said, I really prefer the AHC ride, and if time and money to keep it going were no object I sure would have kept it.

Although, I wouldn't go so far as to say AHC rides better than any car I've owned. Right now my favorite is our 98 Avalon - that car smooths things out better than AHC yet feels very stable and sure around corners etc., IMO. (But it doesn't have much load-carrying capacity...)

 

[jttexam]

Mine with AHC rides great. A friend of mine has one without and it rides great, but different. I know, I know, this doesn't help at all. Srry.