If in the future an electric engine existed, what would I need to do to swap it in? (1 Viewer)

[Dork]

Electric vehicles will be the future, i don't think there's much getting away from it. That being said, it's a very far off future still. Once the different manufacturers have their production vehicles all sorted out and running reliably for a handful of years it will change.

Because it's still such a far off issue, there's not much sense worrying about what motors or batteries would be required, unless you're gonna do it first/now. In 15 years (or however long) I'm sure there will be many multiple companies that will sell packages that can be custom ordered for fitment into almost any vehicle, like a GM or Cummins crate motors program.

 

[hobbes]

Its never really been about the powertrain. Electric motors easily win. It’s always been about the energy storage. The lithium ion battery is great but fossil fuels remain tough to beat. Mostly battery tech has been evolutionary, not revolutionary, in my adult life. I’ve been reading about the next great battery for years. It’s a tougher nut to crack than people think. Hope that changes. Certainly, tons of money is being thrown at the issue...

Good video on battery energy density here:

 

[JeepinPete]

The electric motor in a Tesla is more or less a transaxle. Take that assembly and turn it 90*. You've now replaced the engine, trans, and transfer case in the 80. You may have to regear to a numerically lower axle gear, and run larger diameter tires to make it all work.

The electric drivetrain is far more compact, so you now have nearly the entire engine bay to install batteries if you like, plus the gas tank location, plus the spare tire area. Lots of space for batteries on one of these trucks.

Weight on the other hand, I'd image you will add at least a ton to the curb weight in batteries to have any respectable range, probably more if you live in a colder climate. I know the range in my Volt drops nearly in half in the dead of winter.

It would be a fun project, if you have deep enough pockets to afford the batteries.

 

[shocktower]

Electric cars are a scam. 63% percent of our countries electricity is made from burning fossil fuels. And another 20% comes from nuclear. Not to mention the uncalculable carbon and environmental load created in the manufacturing of lithium ion batteries and shipping them across the globe. And don't forget the carbon load used to make an electric vehicle ( or any new vehicle ). New cars are made of more plastic every year and plastic comes from oil. This is why I drive a 28 year old vehicle, it is really good for the environment. Remember the three R's of environmentalism, Reuse, Reduce, and Recycle. What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

And please move to chit chat.....

A wise person, and the people who support the parties that push this fear factor are part of the issues and when i am 90 I will be driving my diesel powered cruiser

 

[maxamillion2345]

Nah man peak oil is coming. And the end of the Toyota Land Cruiser as we know it.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Its never really been about the powertrain. Electric motors easily win. It’s always been about the energy storage. The lithium ion battery is great but fossil fuels remain tough to beat. Mostly battery tech has been evolutionary, not revolutionary, in my adult life. I’ve been reading about the next great battery for years. It’s a tougher nut to crack than people think. Hope that changes. Certainly, tons of money is being thrown at the issue...

Good video on battery energy density here:

Interesting video.
Things no-one every mentions that bother me about electric cars, is the increase in use of metals such as aluminium and copper which use huge amounts of energy to mine and process them. And also the increase in use of heavy metals and nasty chemicals in battery production, and the energy used in battery manufacture.

 

[Heckraiser]

Classic cars will no longer be classic if converted to electric. Nuclear, hydrogen, or whatever.

Truth. But a restomod with an engine swap isn't a classic anymore either. IMO, (if the technology ever becomes available/feasible) this will be along the lines of a SBC swap... not for the purists, but for those who like the way it drives and are willing to spend the money.

 

[Bambusiero]

Electric cars are a scam. 63% percent of our countries electricity is made from burning fossil fuels. And another 20% comes from nuclear. Not to mention the uncalculable carbon and environmental load created in the manufacturing of lithium ion batteries and shipping them across the globe. And don't forget the carbon load used to make an electric vehicle ( or any new vehicle ). New cars are made of more plastic every year and plastic comes from oil. This is why I drive a 28 year old vehicle, it is really good for the environment. Remember the three R's of environmentalism, Reuse, Reduce, and Recycle. What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

All very very valid points that many just gloss over in their haste to "go green", which is mostly a false god.
Everything we do, everything, has a negative environmental impact of some kind.

But, still, the electric drive train has many compelling aspects, simply as an alternative method of delivering power to the wheels.
The past few years have proven, beyond question, the astounding performance ability of electric motors.
Engineering trade-offs confront one at all turns, but...

In my Landcruiser daydreams, I imagine a hybrid electic - something like this:

1) Solid axle, just like the 80 (well, not quite), for it's simple multi-role ruggedness and ability to articulate.

2) 4 independently controlled electric motors, one for each wheel, more or less directly coupled to it's wheel.
They would sit in the middle of the axle, where the mechanical differential now sits, each with a drive shaft outward to its wheel.
No mechanical connection between the motors, eliminating all other drive shafts, u-joints, angulation limitations, vibrations, etc.
The size and power of each of the 4 motors is moderate - only 1/4 of the total.

3) Offset portal coupling between motor and wheel, giving excellent ground clearance with only moderate vehicle height.

4) 2 speed gear transmission between each motor and its wheel - High Range, Low Range (Crawl).
Possibly, a 2 speed planetary gear at the motor output.
Electric motors have full torque from zero RPM - a big advantage.
Combine that with the torque multiplication of a high gear ratio - you'd have a crawler.

5) Front and rear axles same or very similar - both with Birfield joint steering articulation.
Electric / hydraulic control of rear steer, positive to negative ratio control, speed and mode select dependent.
Imagine pivoting around a trail obstacle.

6) Small / medium size high efficiency turbo-diesel electric generator.
Optimized for electric generation and fuel efficiency, allowing very limited operating RPM range.
The vehicle has no transmission, transfer case, conventional drive-shafts, or differentials.

7) Full regenerative electric braking, plus high capacity cooling system for excess power dump when batteries are full.
Downhill crawling without brakes.

8) High capacity battery / capacitor system (of course) for power buffering / averaging.

9) The entire Toyota engineering staff to make all this work...

p.s.
To point out - there are 2 basic pieces to the fuel efficiency equation, completely aside from details of this engine or that engine. 2 reasons that Landcruisers get such poor mileage.
A) The weight - well, let's say that's a given. A heavy duty vehicle is - heavy. Nothing to be done about without giving up capability.
But, once you accelerate a heavy weight up to speed - no more energy input needed. If you can recover that investment when slowing, or much of it, it's not such a big deal.
B) Drive train friction - all those bearings, spinning gears, direction changes, and lubricants add up.
That's why 212 HP at the crank becomes 125 at the wheels.
So - reduce that mechanical coupling overhead and you can put up with some electrical loss and still maybe come out ahead.

 

[1973Guppie]

If that happens we will have to take electric cars, modify the s*** out of them and go break them in the wilderness.

 

[Heckraiser]

Electric cars are a scam. 63% percent of our countries electricity is made from burning fossil fuels. And another 20% comes from nuclear. Not to mention the uncalculable carbon and environmental load created in the manufacturing of lithium ion batteries and shipping them across the globe. And don't forget the carbon load used to make an electric vehicle ( or any new vehicle ). New cars are made of more plastic every year and plastic comes from oil. This is why I drive a 28 year old vehicle, it is really good for the environment. Remember the three R's of environmentalism, Reuse, Reduce, and Recycle. What is U.S. electricity generation by energy source? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

And please move to chit chat.....

While I agree with most of your points, I do not agree with your conclusion that "electric cars are a scam."

Those who choose to operate electric vehicles are usually also those who choose to generate electricity via solar or wind offsets. Yes, if you live in West Virginia and charge your electric car by plugging it into your dryer plug, your car is essentially coal-powered. My car is more-or-less wind powered. These source of your domestic electricity is something the end-user has some power to choose in most parts of the country.

There is no denying that lithium mining rapes the landscape and has it's own dire environmental consequences. One could argue that the impact of strip mining is more short-term compared to climate change which is more of a "once the scale is tipped, we're all FUBAR" scenario. But either way, both has it's own immense negative impact on the natural world.

I am in 100% agreement that using up a good old car is the probably the best thing any of us can do if we care about our impact on the world, although I would suggest a 1992 corolla would be a better place to start than an Fj80. Unfortunately, we live in a consumerist world and people buy new s*** because they want it or because it's expected of them. Whether your buy a new Nissan Leaf or a new Tundra, you're consuming a huge amount of resources for that hunk of metal in the driveway. But when you compare the resources consumed over the subsequent 20 years of use, there is a big difference.

 

[jaymar]

My tea leaves say that driver aids are more likely to take it out than loss of access to fuel. As they evolve, self driving cars (transportation pods) are likely to pack tighter in traffic, be seen as safer, etc. The pressure is likely to be something like, your old dinosaur is messing up traffic flow and compromising safety, so legislation is passed, restricting when, where they can be driven, if at all.

A electric converted '80 is going to need tons of batteries! Maybe make a fake overland lifestyle type trailer and fill it with batteries?

So long as the Fossil Fuel Boys own DC, things ain’t gonna change. And can you imagine the voter blowback? We’ll be driving these rigs until the oceans boil off.

 

[jaymar]

Its never really been about the powertrain. Electric motors easily win. It’s always been about the energy storage. The lithium ion battery is great but fossil fuels remain tough to beat. Mostly battery tech has been evolutionary, not revolutionary, in my adult life. I’ve been reading about the next great battery for years. It’s a tougher nut to crack than people think. Hope that changes. Certainly, tons of money is being thrown at the issue...

Good video on battery energy density here:

Lithium batteries? Look up “thermal runaway,” and see if you want to be driving around with that under your butt.

 

[sunrk]

Current RRP for diesel around where I'm living fluctuates around a range that seems to be centred on about A$1.50 a litre at present. It varies from place to place and fuel outlets within a km of each other can have very different prices. For my money, once I have to start paying $5 per litre, that's when trouble starts. At present, I normally need to full up my diesel 80 once every couple of weeks or longer if all I do is to/from work runs. Average purchase is 100 to 120 litres based on how much I've driven, so $150 to $200 is not unusual when I fill up two almost empty tanks.

Current battery tech for electric vehicles cannot come close to matching the energy density of long-chain liquid hydrocarbons. However electric vehicles make up for that because they are 80 to 90 percent energy efficient compared to about 30 pct for petrol or diesel vehicles. 4wd's being big units have a lot of room for big power components to do an EV conversion, providing the battery and electronics can be sorted out.

 

[hobbes]

Here’s the current FJ40 build link.

Builds - Electric TLC FJ-40 Build

This is going to be a neat project :rofl: This 1970 FJ-40 is being converted to 100% electric drive. This thread will document the details of the build (also linked to here via ElectricGT). The new power plant will be Twin HPEVS AC-50 electric motors. The twins will be assembled end-to-end...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[axehead]

EV West - Electric Vehicle Parts, Components, EVSE Charging Stations, Electric Car Conversion Kits

www.evwest.com

At the moment it looks like this. Of course the big question is where the juice comes from to charge those batteries. In years to come who knows but for off road now then dead dinosaur is #1

 

[mikedamageinc]

Wow two pages of this and it's still not moved to chat!?

Ten of million of cars are made every year and you think fuel is about to dry up? The car makers want to keep makes piles of money so if the fuel was coming to an end they would be switching production to EVs in a hurry but they're not, except for in small numbers to satisfy political reasons. And given the average rise of gas prices it would take how many thousands of years to get to 150?

As far as the swap itself, it ain't an LS swap and if you have to ask, well...