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ICE on cellphones --

Discussion in 'Chit-Chat' started by erics_bruisers, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. erics_bruisers

    erics_bruisers

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    -- sorry if a re-post, but worthy!

    e

    -------------------------------

    story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/17/AR2005071700879.html?nav=rss_nation

    This is really good to know. This is being sent out to many people and was featured on last night’s news shows. We can also use this to help identify people that can not identify themselves for some reason or another.
    >
    > Paramedics will turn to a victim's cell phone for clues to that
    person's identity. You can make their job much easier with a simple idea that
    they are trying to get everyone to adopt: ICE.
    >
    > ICE stands for In Case of Emergency. If you add an entry in the
    contacts list in your cell phone under ICE, with the name and phone no. of the
    person that the emergency services should call on your behalf, you can
    save them a lot of time and have your loved ones contacted quickly. It
    only takes a few moments of your time to do.
    >
    > Paramedics know what ICE means and they look for it immediately. ICE
    your cell phone NOW!
    >
    > Please pass this one along
     
  2. Liam

    Liam

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    i just heard about this - my uncle, who is a little anal retentive, suggested that we set this up.


    Not saying you're anal in anyway Eric :flipoff2: :D :D
     
  3. erics_bruisers

    erics_bruisers

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    we'll let tyler decide if it's too anal or not -- :D
     
  4. dieseldog

    dieseldog She idles just fine . . .

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    Either that or the paramedics will think that's the number for your crystal meth dealer . . . .
     
  5. concretejungle

    concretejungle SILVER Star

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    bwahahahahahaha..................
     
  6. PolterGeist

    PolterGeist

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    Somthing tells me that's a HIPAA violation? To call a number on someone's cell phone to advise someone you don't know of a persons medical treatment?

    We aren't even allowed to tell someone's spouse when they're in the hospital if we dont have a release. If it's an emergency and we cannot get a release, it is handled completely different.

    I think this is probably urban legend/chain letter material....

    Steve
     
  7. Jman

    Jman

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  8. T Y L E R

    T Y L E R

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    My provincial legislation is fairly rigorous in terms of confidentiality. I'm not sure how this would fly. Perhaps for a stranger to pick up their phone and dial .. but for me, it would probably be crossing the line now. Hard to say .. I regularly interview relatives at my pts side looking for detailed info to flesh out the history etc, so I wonder how putting a cellular connection between myself and that resource would differ .... for one it would be a little harder to establish who is actually on the other end of the phone..any number of people could be picking up at that number.


    We had confidentiality training this winter, and this did not come up. Maybe I'll run it by the quality assurance manager next time I have a chance.




    TY
     
  9. NorCalDoug

    NorCalDoug problems solved daily...

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    I don't think it would be a HIPAA voilation. It could be argued that there's "implied consent" if you voluntarily enter contact information under a ICE title.

    Don't quote me on this though...I ain't no lawyer.
     
  10. mabrodis

    mabrodis

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    Probably true, I would guess calling a ICE number would merely be to inform that person to come to such and such of police station or a hospital, etc...certainly not give out information over the actual phonecall...

    Hmm...maybe I should rethink my clever WEED, METH and COKE contacts in my phone.. :D
     
  11. T Y L E R

    T Y L E R

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    But Mark, you'd have to introduce yourself to the person on the other end. How as a paramedic do I go about that without disclosing some level of confidentiality? Or does one have to look under the details of the ICE listing to obtain the contact name? Because if not, then the call is being placed blindly.

    Also at what threshold do we engage the ICE crap? When they are unconscious? Unable to talk? Weak? Anxious? SOB?


    I cannot remember the last time I went to a senior's home and saw a cell phone ANYWHERE. And I'll be damned if Igoing around looking for one when my place is with the pt.


    I can do my utmost to try and fix you Mark if I find you slumped over the wheel of your Mini. I don't need anyones input ... in the past , and still to this day what I see a lot of are medic alert bracelets, and necklaces. This have medical history, allergies etc. The are right where I need them to be .. ON the pt. Not off somewhere in a fawking purse .. :rolleyes:


    And as a medic I could really give a rats ass about taking the time away from my pt so I can call someone to give them the heads up to go to so and so Hospital. Thats for the ER dept........and around here, even if you're dead we don't tell you that over the phone .. we just ask that you come down. And we lie and just say the pt is very ill.


    Whatever turns your crank I guess. I bet this British medic never heard of the medic alert system .. or maybe he has some technofetish.


    :flipoff2:
     
  12. mabrodis

    mabrodis

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    I would think it could be handled just like the police do, which I believe is to call someone, anyone, and tell them to come to such and such location. The person would probably question the officer about what happened, is the person alive, etc...and the officer would simply say they could not talk about any details, but to come to this location as soon as possible.

    I totally agree it's the ER dept's job to notify relatives and such...you're totally right TY, your job is with the patient and trying to help them, and any precious minutes you waste playing jingles on their phone could jeopardize their life...
     
  13. Jman

    Jman

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    Someone could just say "I found this cellphone--if you want it, come to XXX hospital emergency room. . . "
     
  14. T Y L E R

    T Y L E R

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    Jman, am I missing the point , or are you?


    Although, as I discussed, I think the ICE program could have serious confidentiality issues, I thought it was intended to aquire a remote resource to the pts identity, past medical history, meds, allergies, etc etc.

    If you're going to implement ICE, why play games by telling the person on the other end of the phone (who, incidentally, you cannot establish is even the contact person) they should go to a hospital if they want their phone back. That is one of the dumbest things you've said ...



    TY
     
  15. Jman

    Jman

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    Oh, come on TY, I've said dumber things than that! :D

    My post essentially was a poor attempt at humor in agreeing with Mabrodis--that the patient's condition didn't need to be disclosed, just the location (or the location of the cell phone :rolleyes: ).

    What I've heard/read of the effort simply said that it is a way to inform responders of who to contact in case of an emergency (I assume the majority are for traffic accidents). I'm not a responder, I don't know what the protocol is for informing family, friends, whatever about accidents. I don't think the program is meant to get the person on the other end of the line involved in treatment, it's just to be a shortcut to the process of sending a squad car around to the address on the drivers' license, etc.

    I mean, when a person is unconscious in the ER, folks DO try to contact people, right? :confused:
     
  16. e rock

    e rock

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    Why is the 'ICE' number listing any different than the 'Emergency Contact' number I would list on a medical release form prior to, say, skydiving - in terms of confidentiality?

    Part of the importance of making this campaign so widespread is to sort of 'standardize' the format with which the information is stored/found. With a standardized format, I think there's some form of implied consent on the part of the phone owner which would release the EMT/whoever from any liability.

    That's how I think it should work, anyway.
     
  17. firetruck41

    firetruck41

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    I think it could work. According to what I know, (which isn't much :) ), anything that is said over the radio, ie. dispatch info, initial pt condition info that dispatcher has received from the reporting party, destination hospital, etc. is public info, anybody with a scanner can listen to it too. there is never any personally identifiable information transmitted, ie. name, date of birth, etc. So, I wouldn't have a problem calling an ICE number and saying that I was at such and such an address with a patient, did they know anyone that lived there, and did they have any pertinent medical history about that person, let them know in general terms if the pt was stable/unstable, then inform them of the destination hospital.
    I haven't done it yet (ICE), but I have had patients hand me their cell and ask me to call their daughter/husband/etc. and tell them what was going on. Sometimes I have to go through their cell phone contact list to find the number, 'cuz they can't remember...
     
  18. PolterGeist

    PolterGeist

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    It's definitely an interesting question about if it's HIPAA covered.

    I would err on the side of caution-- especially since if this person comes into an ER I'm working and needs lifesaving treatment, I'm not gonna take time out and call the legal department for clarification...

    And you know how legal dept will respond... "If there's not a signed, notarized release with the cell phone instructing you to call that number, don't."

    Though I am just a lowly 3rd year med student, and I only am classified as an observer in the er, and about as low on the totem pole as you can get in a University Hospital ER, they still don't let us near the place without beating the HIPAA horse till it is past dead....

    "I don't know, I'll see if I can find anything out." is the line we memorize.



    Steve
     
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