I gotta quit smoking!

[Prado]

Hello all,

I've spent a bunch of time over the last week searching through the various threads on 'Mud regarding smoking issues with 1HD-T rigs (HDJ81 in my case). There's lots of great info but I'm bit frustrated in that very few actual conclusions seem to be reached regarding the actual fixes and I'm having trouble deciding what to do about my issue(s). Here are the particulars of my situation that I'm trying to solve:

1) When starting it puffs a reasonable amount of black/grey smoke...does this when cold or warm.

2) Under load, as when accelerating away from a stop, there is a moderate amount of black/grey smoke and then clears mostly but not completely up once under way. At night I can see a small amount of smoke almost all the time by looking at the headlight of vehicles behind me.

3) When idling along on the trail in 4Lo there is often a considerable amount of white/grey/bluish smoke...this is excaberated when air temps are lower and there is alot of moisture in the air.

4) Exhaust smells of diesel only. There is NO smell of coolant and NO smell of oil.

5) The engine is only consuming small amounts of oil (~ 1L of oil per 4,000KM)

6) I get what I consider to be relatively poor mileage (~13L/100KM) given what others seem to get with their HDJ81's

Given all of the above and the research I've done on here I'm inclined to think that I need to either turn down my fuel a bit and/or look into rebuilding or sourcing new injectors.

As new injectors are a considerable expense I'm hoping that others could chime in and let me know if this jives with other's experiences with smoking 1HD-T's

Thanks in advance for any assistance you could provide!

Cheers!

 

[canucksafari]

1L of oil in 4000K seems high for a 1HD-T. They are a lower compression engine. Perhaps it is being lost through the turbo bearing seal? On a NA indirect injection engine I'd say you need new injectors. Injectors on this engine are not cheap and it seems OEM new ones are the only sure way to go. I'd recommend you take it to someone who knows these engines really well. Fiddling around with it could cost you a lot of money. Someone like John at EBI (Burnaby BC) could probably quickly diagnose your problem and fix it.

 

[IanB]

Are you using any sort of fuel additive?

I have a Bosch injection pump troubleshooting chart at home, I'll take a peek when I get back after the weekend and see what it suggests.

 

[lumpy70]

You need to turn down the fuel. You need a 14mm wrench and an allan key. Turn it VERY slightly (1/4 turn at a time) counter-clockwise.

Your fuel mileage is TOTALLY average for what we're getting in an 80 here in Calgary (see the attached sheet we built for our club in Calgary).

It might be timing, or maybe injectors, but I think it's fairly normal, especially the mileage.

How many kms on your rig?

Craig.

 

[Prado]

1L of oil in 4000K seems high for a 1HD-T. They are a lower compression engine. Perhaps it is being lost through the turbo bearing seal? On a NA indirect injection engine I'd say you need new injectors. Injectors on this engine are not cheap and it seems OEM new ones are the only sure way to go. I'd recommend you take it to someone who knows these engines really well. Fiddling around with it could cost you a lot of money. Someone like John at EBI (Burnaby BC) could probably quickly diagnose your problem and fix it.

Thanks for that...I thought truly concerning oil consumption would be quite a bit higher than what I'm seeing . As I said the exhaust does not smell of oil so I'm pretty sure it's not being burned...I was thinking possibly a small leak somewhere. John at EBI would be great but I'm in Calgary and the local diesel cruiser specialty shop has been pretty hit and miss for me.

Are you using any sort of fuel additive?

I have a Bosch injection pump troubleshooting chart at home, I'll take a peek when I get back after the weekend and see what it suggests.

Hey Ian, I do use Power Service diesel additive and last week I tried running 2 cans of the Lubro-Moly Diesel Purge product through but it didn't seem to do anything...I'd appreciate hearing what the chart suggests!

You need to turn down the fuel. You need a 14mm wrench and an allan key. Turn it VERY slightly (1/4 turn at a time) counter-clockwise.

Your fuel mileage is TOTALLY average for what we're getting in an 80 here in Calgary (see the attached sheet we built for our club in Calgary).

It might be timing, or maybe injectors, but I think it's fairly normal, especially the mileage.

How many kms on your rig?

Craig.

Thanks for that Craig...it makes me feel better that the fuel consumption is in line with what others are seeing here in Calgary. I'm not sure what the factors are but I struggle to understand how others on 'Mud are seeing 11L/100KM. I'm going to try turning the fuel down as suggested and see how it works. I'd like to do something about the smoke, especially on the trail as I feel bad about gassing out whoever gets stuck behind me! The truck shows 161,000KM and other than the smoke it runs really well and makes good power. As per Canucksafari's suggestion do you know of a place in the Calgary area that it would worth taking it to for a diagnosis?

Cheers!

 

[BCR4619]

1L of oil in 4000K seems high for a 1HD-T. They are a lower compression engine. Perhaps it is being lost through the turbo bearing seal? On a NA indirect injection engine I'd say you need new injectors. Injectors on this engine are not cheap and it seems OEM new ones are the only sure way to go. I'd recommend you take it to someone who knows these engines really well. Fiddling around with it could cost you a lot of money. Someone like John at EBI (Burnaby BC) could probably quickly diagnose your problem and fix it.

He confused 2 shops into one, it should read John at ATEB in Burnaby.

EBI is run by Steve Tetu in Port Coquitlam, BC

Have you looked at your blow-by? I disconnected mine and ran it into a catch can then to outside air to keep my intake dry, I noticed I was loosing some oil though the turbo but it has since stopped for w.e reason and my oil levels are perfect coming up to 5000k now.

As for mileage this last tank I got around 11/100km but it was mostly highway.

 

[lumpy70]

If I'm not working on it myself, the only place I'll take my truck is Proactive in the NE.

403-291-2470

 

[IanB]

Hey Ian, I do use Power Service diesel additive and last week I tried running 2 cans of the Lubro-Moly Diesel Purge product through but it didn't seem to do anything...I'd appreciate hearing what the chart suggests!

Cheers!

We have pretty well the same trucks, same tires, except you have a lift. I'm averaging 12.8L/100km over 11 fillups, my truck has just over 95,000kms on it now. I had the oil changed when I picked it up in Vancouver in early June, it hasn't burned any oil so far, over 5,000km later. Just some comparison info for you, not sure if it helps or not.

Try pulling your intake from the turbo to intake manifold off and see if you have a lot of oil in there, you may be losing oil via the turbo, which would explain the oil loss and smoke all in one shot. If I had to guess though, you're getting too much fuel for the air you're getting. Is the air filter clean? Any way of telling how much boost you're making?

 

[cody c]

Id have a look over your intake piping to see if the internals are coated with oil, that would tell you if your turbo seals are seeping, and could be part of the issue related to burning oil.

Kevin rowland is facing similar issues but I dont know that he's mentioned excessive smoke, there's a thread in the diesel section about it. I mention this because it seems that a seeping turbo can be cause from higher crank case pressure/blocked venting which is mentioned in his thread.

I would also suggest playing with timing a bit. Is timing adjusted on that engine by rotating the pump a few degrees?

3B's tend to smoke when they have sat for a long time, due to a governor diaphragm that dries out and cracks causing fuel issues which have the same symptoms (except for burning oil), Im not really familiar with your engine, but maybe there is something similar on it.

Also, the other place it would be burning oil would be leaking from your top end or really bad rings, a compression test would tell you if it was the rings (which I dont think it is) and a leak test may tell you if you have some bad valve guides, which would be the other source of burning oil.

 

[Prado]

If I'm not working on it myself, the only place I'll take my truck is Proactive in the NE.

403-291-2470

I've taken it there for other things (pre-purchase inspection and minor work)...I may have them take a look at it...Thanks!

Try pulling your intake from the turbo to intake manifold off and see if you have a lot of oil in there, you may be losing oil via the turbo, which would explain the oil loss and smoke all in one shot. If I had to guess though, you're getting too much fuel for the air you're getting. Is the air filter clean? Any way of telling how much boost you're making?

Have you looked at your blow-by? I disconnected mine and ran it into a catch can then to outside air to keep my intake dry, I noticed I was loosing some oil though the turbo but it has since stopped for w.e reason and my oil levels are perfect coming up to 5000k now.

I do have some oil coating the intake tract...it's not 'soaked' but it there is definitely some oil in there. I thought that was relatively normal for these motors? I was researching catch cans last night and think I'll try to set something like that up. Even if there is some oil getting past the turbo, I don't think it's contributing siginficantly to my smoke issues as A) the smoke is black/grey with very little blue to it and B) there is NO burning oil smell to the smoke...it smells completely of diesel. I do need to change all the filters this weekend (oil, fuel, air) and I'll see if that has any effect although the air filter didn't seem very dirty a few weeks ago when I had it out. I plan on installing a set of gauges (boost/EGT/??) but as of now I have no specific boost measurement.

Id have a look over your intake piping to see if the internals are coated with oil, that would tell you if your turbo seals are seeping, and could be part of the issue related to burning oil.

Kevin rowland is facing similar issues but I dont know that he's mentioned excessive smoke, there's a thread in the diesel section about it. I mention this because it seems that a seeping turbo can be cause from higher crank case pressure/blocked venting which is mentioned in his thread.

I would also suggest playing with timing a bit. Is timing adjusted on that engine by rotating the pump a few degrees?

3B's tend to smoke when they have sat for a long time, due to a governor diaphragm that dries out and cracks causing fuel issues which have the same symptoms (except for burning oil), Im not really familiar with your engine, but maybe there is something similar on it.

Also, the other place it would be burning oil would be leaking from your top end or really bad rings, a compression test would tell you if it was the rings (which I dont think it is) and a leak test may tell you if you have some bad valve guides, which would be the other source of burning oil.

Thanks for the input Cody! As I said above, I really don't think I'm burning much oil as the exhaust looks and smells to be oil free. The timing is adjusted by rotating the pump in or out on these motors but I'm not sure exactly how to do it. I think for my own peace of mind I may take it in to Pro-Active and have them do a compression and leak-down test. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't the motor run really crappy if I had a compression issue? Mine runs nice and smooth and makes (what I think is) good power.

Thanks for everyone's input...I really appreciate having a community like this to rely on when I'm over my head!

Cheers!

 

[canucksafari]

He confused 2 shops into one, it should read John at ATEB in Burnaby.

EBI is run by Steve Tetu in Port Coquitlam, BC

Have you looked at your blow-by? I disconnected mine and ran it into a catch can then to outside air to keep my intake dry, I noticed I was loosing some oil though the turbo but it has since stopped for w.e reason and my oil levels are perfect coming up to 5000k now.

As for mileage this last tank I got around 11/100km but it was mostly highway.

Friday afternoon brain fart! I mean John at ATEB. He is the guru with these engines. His handle on MUD is hybric4x4diesel . I'd shoot him a PM. Injector cleaner will only work if your injectors are fouled. If the injector tips are worn, no amount of injector cleaner will do any good. Your injectors are also two stage injectors and they require specialized equipment to rebuild. As for the oil, if it is blow-by or slowly coming through the turbo seal, you are not going to smell 1L usage in 4000 kms of driving. More likely it will be totally combusted.

One other consideration would also be your valve lash. I do mine every 40,000-60,000 kms. Not sure what is required for your engine.

Good luck.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Thanks for that...I thought truly concerning oil consumption would be quite a bit higher than what I'm seeing . As I said the exhaust does not smell of oil so I'm pretty sure it's not being burned...I was thinking possibly a small leak somewhere.
!

I doubt you would see or smell oil being burnt at the rate of 1ltr/4000klms

 

[Prado]

...As for the oil, if it is blow-by or slowly coming through the turbo seal, you are not going to smell 1L usage in 4000 kms of driving. More likely it will be totally combusted.

One other consideration would also be your valve lash. I do mine every 40,000-60,000 kms. Not sure what is required for your engine.

Good luck.

I doubt you would see or smell oil being burnt at the rate of 1ltr/4000klms

Fair enough on see/smelling that much oil...but then it wouldn't be source of my smoke issues?

I'm pretty sure the PO of my rig didn't do much in the way of preventative maintenance (other than oil changes, for which I have receipts) so perhaps it's overdue for a valve adjustment. Would valves out of adjustment lead to the symptoms I listed in my first post?

Cheers

 

[SHREDwagon]

GCL Fuel Systems in the SE (right behind Princess Auto) are certified Bosch Techs. I had my pump and injectors rebuilt 40k kms ago and so far, so good.

If you need to have your timing checked or injectors/pump bench tested - I'd recommend them. Make sure you order the brass (I think?) injector gaskets ahead of time though. Can be a pain to find.

For tuning - no one comes close to ATEB.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Fair enough on see/smelling that much oil...but then it wouldn't be source of my smoke issues?

Burnt engine oil is typically blue and you have black/grey.

I'm pretty sure the PO of my rig didn't do much in the way of preventative maintenance (other than oil changes, for which I have receipts) so perhaps it's overdue for a valve adjustment. Would valves out of adjustment lead to the symptoms I listed in my first post?

Cheers

You need a injection pump and injector service,nothing less.
If its done 160k,I bet its never had one and probably no valve adjustment either.
Time to bite the bullet and get it all up to date

 

[bj40green]

4) Exhaust smells of diesel only. There is NO smell of coolant and NO smell of oil.

I'm the first one to admit that I've little knowledge of diesels but when I had a problem with my B engine a few months back, the first thing my mechanic did was check the exhaust pipe for black, dry, non smelling sooth (good) or a fatty, diesel smelling substance (not good).

Rudi

 

[Prado]

You need a injection pump and injector service,nothing less.
If its done 160k,I bet its never had one and probably no valve adjustment either.
Time to bite the bullet and get it all up to date

You know, I suspect you're right...I should just suck it up and be done with it!

GCL Fuel Systems in the SE (right behind Princess Auto) are certified Bosch Techs. I had my pump and injectors rebuilt 40k kms ago and so far, so good.

If you need to have your timing checked or injectors/pump bench tested - I'd recommend them. Make sure you order the brass (I think?) injector gaskets ahead of time though. Can be a pain to find.

For tuning - no one comes close to ATEB.

Thanks for the suggestion...you're not the first one to suggest GCL to me. As per my response to Rosco I think I'll just make an appointment and get them to service the injectors and check the timing of the pump. You have a PM!

Cheers!

 

[roscoFJ73]

You know, I suspect you're right...I should just suck it up and be done with it!



Thanks for the suggestion...you're not the first one to suggest GCL to me. As per my response to Rosco I think I'll just make an appointment and get them to service the injectors and check the timing of the pump. You have a PM!

Cheers!

How about the timing belt? If it hasnt been done,it would be a good time.
Also,the diesel shops I use want the landcruiser fitted with new air filter and fuel filter for maximum flow when it gets there.
Im not sure how ATEB or GCL do it,but my shop does the fuel adjustment on a dyno

 

[SHREDwagon]

I believe GCL has a Dyno. They work on everything from combines to the 600hp full-size crowd.

This ain't OZ - where Toyota Diesels grow on trees like koala's or Victoria Bitter.

IMHO, we're pretty lucky to have a shop like ATEB in Western Canada.

 

[roscoFJ73]

I believe GCL has a Dyno. They work on everything from combines to the 600hp full-size crowd.

This ain't OZ - where Toyota Diesels grow on trees like koala's or Victoria Bitter.

IMHO, we're pretty lucky to have a shop like ATEB in Western Canada.

I cant see why Toyota diesels are anything out of the ordinary to any good diesel mechanic.