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Hysteer

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by Poser, Dec 4, 2003.

  1. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    Anyone out here running this stuff. I saw this on Pirate. I have a set on order to install on a sprung under 40, and was just wondering what others might have to say...

    -Steve

    http://www.4x4labs.com/products/steeringarms.html
     
  2. CruisinGA

    CruisinGA

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    I guess I'm wrong, but I thought that the real benefit of hysteer was to move the tie rod/drag link above the leaf springs when performing a springover.
    Whats the advantage of hysteer on SUA trucks?
     
  3. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    Have you been to the site and looked at the set up? Tie rod is BEHIND the front axle, out of harms way, and drag link is up out of the way of the rocks too. Bent a couple when I was running Toyota axles, and one since I have switched to a 60 front. I think that it seems like a pretty good idea. Just wanted to get some others thoughts on the idea.

    -Steve
     
  4. fsusteve

    fsusteve

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    Let us know what you find Steve, the article was interesting and I'm heading towards the SOA bandwagon and will be needing something like this.
     
  5. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    Spent a fair amount of time on the phone with Luke, he is running a SUA 40. They seem to be pretty sharp, and strait forward people. I am really looking forward to installing this stuff, and seeing how it all works out. I will post some pics when I get all the goodies.

    -Steve
     
  6. theferg

    theferg

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    I agree. If I hadn't found a way to do my hi-steer super-duper cheap, I would have got 4x4 labs hi-steer. I actually called them up to order them but Luke wasn't sure the system would work with my electric locker in the front. I told him I better check it out and then never called back to get 'em 'cause I found the cheap way to do it. That was before I had the e-locker installed in my axle and now that it's in, I am 99.9% positive it would work just fine. The only thing that was questionable was the actuator and it actually sits pretty low and pretty far forward. Anyway, I think the kit looks super slick and if you are that concerned about your tie rod and such in SUA, I say do it. I doubt you'll be dissappointed. I think Hammerhead runs their kit...

    -Ferg-
     
  7. CruisinGA

    CruisinGA

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    [quote author=Poser link=board=1;threadid=8412;start=msg71342#msg71342 date=1070583538]
    Have you been to the site and looked at the set up? Tie rod is BEHIND the front axle, out of harms way, and drag link is up out of the way of the rocks too. Bent a couple when I was running Toyota axles, and one since I have switched to a 60 front. I think that it seems like a pretty good idea. Just wanted to get some others thoughts on the idea.

    -Steve
    [/quote]
    Yes I looked at the site and saw those arms, but assumed that a SUA cruiser wouldn't really need to have the tie rod behind the axle, due to the limit of extreme trails a SUA'd cruiser could run. Guess you can't be too careful. Does seem like a good idea. I'll wait till I SOA though.
    Before I had heard of these arms I remember wrenchin on my buddies Disco and seeing the rear mounted tie-rod, and thinkin it seemed like a good idea, but wasted on a fancy late model disco. :D
     
  8. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    GA-"but assumed that a SUA cruiser wouldn't really need to have the tie rod behind the axle, due to the limit of extreme trails a SUA'd cruiser could run. "


    Assumed....

    Been sprung under the whole time,(15+years) from 33's to 42's, and will follow, or die tryin', any sprung over, coil, or whatever, on any trail. I will agree that there are some people that have some pretty great suspension mods, but I have not found a situation that my sprung under truck, has needed to be sprung over.(Black Hills, Moab/Logan UT, Farmington NM, CO, ID, and pleanty of flatland/hills, trees, rocks and mud running in the midwest). Sometime here, I am going to build a coil-sprung, V8 Land Cruiser/buggy, but the red truck has worked fine, and I am pretty certian that it will hang in here a bit longer, provided I do no smash the crap out of it again, in another roll-over.

    -Steve
     
  9. woody

    woody unhelpful spotter Staff Member Admin

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    Steve, I think your smarter than this, but you need to run Attica with me once.... <wink>

    And yes, you do quite well with your rig, but you are also smart enuf to avoid stupidity...

    unfortunately for my sheetmetal, I am not! lol
     
  10. Slowerthanu

    Slowerthanu SILVER Star

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    [quote author=CruisinGA link=board=1;threadid=8412;start=msg71373#msg71373 date=1070585714]
    Yes I looked at the site and saw those arms, but assumed that a SUA cruiser wouldn't really need to have the tie rod behind the axle, due to the limit of extreme trails a SUA'd cruiser could run. Guess you can't be too careful. Does seem like a good idea. I'll wait till I SOA though.
    Before I had heard of these arms I remember wrenchin on my buddies Disco and seeing the rear mounted tie-rod, and thinkin it seemed like a good idea, but wasted on a fancy late model disco. :D
    [/quote]

    I have sure gone alot of places in my sua FJ-40, I am going SOA eventually but It has served me well on all of the tougher trails in Moab that I have run. I have gotten hung up a few times but it isnt anything a little throttle and some careful steering didn't fix.
     
  11. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    Brian,

    I was VERY BUMMED when I broke on Flat Nasty, especially after Rhonda led me out there to video going through it. Five minutes after she left, BOOM, rear leaf spring and U-Joint, companion flange and slip on rear shaft...What a mess. I see the pics of you and Nolan on the multiple falls on that trail, and REALLY want to get back out there, and FINISH IT!

    I was to go to Attica when Steve Benson and you met up there two years ago, but things just have not worked out for that yet. Too many things to do throughout the year....

    We will get together soon I am sure.

    Good luck!

    -Steve
     
  12. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    This was not started as a SO/SU debate...

    Smarter.... That is open for debate. I have wadded up my junk in some pretty silly places.. and then after it is fixed, skinned it like I had done it all my life, so who knows...

    I like to call it luck Brian, becasue most of the time, that is what it is, and very few people in this world acknoledge it. It is good to be lucky..and yes, the luck does run out..but it comes back.

    -Steve
     
  13. woody

    woody unhelpful spotter Staff Member Admin

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    what effect does moving the arms behind the axle have on ackerman angles??
     
  14. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    Good question.

    Luke said that was taken into consideration and set up properly. I thought that someplace on thier site, they went into detail about the ackerman principle, in relation to stock, and modified Toyota axle set ups.
    I will look again!

    -Steve
     
  15. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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  16. CruisinGA

    CruisinGA

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    [quote author=Poser link=board=1;threadid=8412;start=msg71385#msg71385 date=1070586664]
    Been sprung under the whole time,(15+years) from 33's to 42's, and will follow, or die tryin', any sprung over, coil, or whatever, on any trail. I will agree that there are some people that have some pretty great suspension mods, but I have not found a situation that my sprung under truck, has needed to be sprung over.(Black Hills, Moab/Logan UT, Farmington NM, CO, ID, and pleanty of flatland/hills, trees, rocks and mud running in the midwest). Sometime here, I am going to build a coil-sprung, V8 Land Cruiser/buggy, but the red truck has worked fine, and I am pretty certian that it will hang in here a bit longer, provided I do no smash the crap out of it again, in another roll-over.
    [/quote]
    Looks like I assumed wrong! I figured I had hit the limit of SUA with 4" lift springs. Guess not. :slap:
     
  17. Poser

    Poser Oh...Durka Durka Durka. s-Moderator Supporting Vendor

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    GA-

    You are only limited by your budget, and your guts.

    I do not really like backing up, so because of that, I have spent a lot of time, and even more money, trying to make it so that I would not have to play half assed, let up or back up. Educational, but not really that smart...I have learned a lot since '88, and still do not think that I know anything...

    -Steve
     
  18. Greg_B

    Greg_B

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    (Talking 60's here)

    I've never had a SOA so can not comment on them at all, however I am working on a SUA 4" spring lift, with extended shackles 60.

    One of the issues I see Lukes arms looking after is the relay rod angle, and the resultant bumpsteer with 4" + lifed SUA vehicle. I also don't like the stress created on the first relay rod link, at the pitman arm. Conventional highsteer arms do not work well for lifted SUA vehicles, nor does the double arm setup, as convential high steer places the tie rod to close to the frame, and the double arm places the relay rod too close to the frame. With a conventional high steer like OTT, if you have any flex at all in your springs, on compression the tie rod will hit the frame, and/or the tie rod will nestle into the pitman arm, rendering you unable to turn the wheel (don't ask me how I know this:)

    Of course lowering bump stops so you have little compression would solve that, at the expense of wheel stuffing.

    SUA,s with high spring lifts will be well suited to straight out steering arms that Luke can supply. If I had known about Luke before I started the abortion (BJ60), I would have seriously considered his setup. As it is, OTT has made me some custom straight out steering arms. BTW, the folks at OTT have been a great help getting this figured, and coming up with custom arms as a solution, and I am happy to stay complete OTT for my set-up. When I was e-mailing back and forth with Luke, he was also a great help. The OTT straight arms are not installed, so can't give any feedback yet.

    Straight out arms will still result in "some" bumpsteer, as the relay rod will not be straight across (with my setup), unless I have a custom drop pitman arm machined. Because Lukes arms run the relay rod at the front and the tie rod at the back you "could" play and have an arm created to minimize bumpsteer (height you want at the front, that is figured to not hit anything), and have the tie rod at a different height behind the axle.

    Hope that kinda made sense.

    gb
     
  19. MARKUS118

    MARKUS118

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    I am doing a 6.2 conversion and a springover at the same time. Do you think that there would be a clearance issue with the oil pan and relocated steering arms/bar? Thanks! :cheers:
     
  20. theferg

    theferg

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    Mixmaster has got a Chevy 6.2 Diesel in his 40. If he comes around maybe he'll have an idea on whether or not the tie rod behind the axle would possibly end up hittin' the oil pan... EDIT: Oh ya, and it's SOA too...

    -Ferg-
     
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