hub won't seat on stub axle (1 Viewer)

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Nov 13, 2013
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I'm almost done with a front axle rebuild and I'm stuck almost at the end...

When I install the hub on the stub axle (passenger side), it is apparently not seating all of the way. When I tighten the bearings, everything rotates smoothly, but there are only few threads left to install the lock nut (it will install and torque).

But after I install the drive plate, the outer axle doesn't stick out enough for the snap ring groove to show. I have compared with the driver's side and the back of the passenger side disk is sitting maybe an 1/8" farther out.

The seal is even with the back of the hub.

I have checked that the new bearing races are fully seated.

At this point, I think I'm going to try and get a new bearing, race and seal and replace it again and see if that works.

The only thing I can think of is that the hub is not fully seated on stub axle because the inside of the bearing is too small.

I have also gone back and verified that I installed the stub axle correctly, although even if it's incorrect, the two bearing nuts would have more room on the stub axle.

Anyother ideas?

Thanks

John S
'97 LX450
 
Can you slide both bearings into place on the spindle without them being in the hub? This would tell you if the inside surface of the bearing is catching on the spindle. If it's not that it almost has to be that one of races is not seated properly or you have a defective/wrong race/bearing/seal.
 
I'm almost done with a front axle rebuild and I'm stuck almost at the end...

When I install the hub on the stub axle (passenger side), it is apparently not seating all of the way. When I tighten the bearings, everything rotates smoothly, but there are only few threads left to install the lock nut (it will install and torque).

But after I install the drive plate, the outer axle doesn't stick out enough for the snap ring groove to show. I have compared with the driver's side and the back of the passenger side disk is sitting maybe an 1/8" farther out.

The seal is even with the back of the hub.

I have checked that the new bearing races are fully seated.

At this point, I think I'm going to try and get a new bearing, race and seal and replace it again and see if that works.

The only thing I can think of is that the hub is not fully seated on stub axle because the inside of the bearing is too small.

I have also gone back and verified that I installed the stub axle correctly, although even if it's incorrect, the two bearing nuts would have more room on the stub axle.

Anyother ideas?

Thanks

John S
'97 LX450
Nomenclature check???

!.When you install the hub on the Stub axle (are you referring to the spindle?)
2.After you install the Drive flange, the outer axle doesn't stick out far enough( Are you talking about the end of the Birfield?)

Solution to 1. Check the packaging for your bearings, if the driver side was correct and the passenger numbers match, then you should be okay. If you're installing the Hub onto the Spindle have you installed the brake caliper ahead of time? If so, then remove it. Next, remove the hub and check to ensure that the inner race from the previous bearing isn't on the spindle. Next check for any grooving or scoring of the rear most portion of the spindle, if it is grooved, then there is most likely a small ridge on both sides of the groove that you cant really see and might not be able to feel. Use a fine file, or a sanding block with fine sanding paper and lightly go over the top of the grove and see if it sands an even patch or two lines. Next, grease the spindle pretty liberally. then try again, also, ensure you don't accidentally have 2 lock washers on the passenger side (not the star washers you bend, but the thick washer that goes on before the first nut).
Solution for 2. Regardless of the hub not seating on the spindle, the Birfield end should still be long enough to snap ring. Thread a bolt, I believe its an M8x1.25 or 1.5 bolt into the hole in the end of the birfield and grab it with pliers or with a pry bar to pull the birfield out far enough for a snap ring.

Finally, how are you setting the bearing pre load? If you don't set it correctly the first time with new bearings, they may not seat all the way and can cause damage to more than the bearings.

Best method I found had the link removed. But it goes as follows:
install the first nut to 47 ftlb of torque spin it clock wise 5 times, spin it counter clockwise 5 times. Loosen the nut until you can spin with your fingers, Repeat 4 times, on the 5th time, tighten the nut to 6-10 ftlb. Use a fish pull scale to check that the preload is around 12 lbs. Then install the tabbed lock washer and second nut, tighten the outer nut to 45-47 ftlb.

if the inner bearing isn't undersized these things should get you where you want to be.

hope it helps
 
I had the same thing happen to me. It ended up being I had not pushed hard enough to seat the seals in the back. Try pushing a bit harder and rotating the rotor at the same time. Loosen the hub nuts first.
 
Can you slide both bearings into place on the spindle without them being in the hub? This would tell you if the inside surface of the bearing is catching on the spindle. If it's not that it almost has to be that one of races is not seated properly or you have a defective/wrong race/bearing/seal.

I didn't remove the seal, yet, I assume I'll need a new one if I do that.

good idea though, I should have taken the risk on that and tried it. It should be too tough to get a new seal.
 
Nomenclature check???

!.When you install the hub on the Stub axle (are you referring to the spindle?)
2.After you install the Drive flange, the outer axle doesn't stick out far enough( Are you talking about the end of the Birfield?)

Solution to 1. Check the packaging for your bearings, if the driver side was correct and the passenger numbers match, then you should be okay. If you're installing the Hub onto the Spindle have you installed the brake caliper ahead of time? If so, then remove it. Next, remove the hub and check to ensure that the inner race from the previous bearing isn't on the spindle. Next check for any grooving or scoring of the rear most portion of the spindle, if it is grooved, then there is most likely a small ridge on both sides of the groove that you cant really see and might not be able to feel. Use a fine file, or a sanding block with fine sanding paper and lightly go over the top of the grove and see if it sands an even patch or two lines. Next, grease the spindle pretty liberally. then try again, also, ensure you don't accidentally have 2 lock washers on the passenger side (not the star washers you bend, but the thick washer that goes on before the first nut).
Solution for 2. Regardless of the hub not seating on the spindle, the Birfield end should still be long enough to snap ring. Thread a bolt, I believe its an M8x1.25 or 1.5 bolt into the hole in the end of the birfield and grab it with pliers or with a pry bar to pull the birfield out far enough for a snap ring.

Finally, how are you setting the bearing pre load? If you don't set it correctly the first time with new bearings, they may not seat all the way and can cause damage to more than the bearings.

Best method I found had the link removed. But it goes as follows:
install the first nut to 47 ftlb of torque spin it clock wise 5 times, spin it counter clockwise 5 times. Loosen the nut until you can spin with your fingers, Repeat 4 times, on the 5th time, tighten the nut to 6-10 ftlb. Use a fish pull scale to check that the preload is around 12 lbs. Then install the tabbed lock washer and second nut, tighten the outer nut to 45-47 ftlb.

if the inner bearing isn't undersized these things should get you where you want to be.

hope it helps


Sorry on the terminology...
yes, I was referring to the spindle
The bearing were part of an entire kit and didn't have markings on the packaging. At this point I'm assuming I need to replace the bearing.

I'll check the spindle for any grooving.

I am fairly confident that the stub axle was all the way out, and the hub is too far, making the drive plate too far out and therefore the groove doesn't show.

I had torque the axle to 48ft/lbs and rotated it and was hoping that would make it pop on further, but it feels like the inner bearing race is really tight on the spindle.

tomorrow I'll remove the bearing from the hub and see if it will go on the spindle.

thanks for the hints.
 
I had the same thing happen to me. It ended up being I had not pushed hard enough to seat the seals in the back. Try pushing a bit harder and rotating the rotor at the same time. Loosen the hub nuts first.

I really worked hard to push the hub on further and it's not going anywhere. I'm going to get a replacement bearing and seal tomorrow and try again.
 
Still no luck? Did you do the driver side already? I can't imagine it being two different inner bearings in a single kit. That would justify a refund or at least replacement parts to me. Well, I hope you can figure it out. You might cringe at the idea if you did the driver side already, but you could try swapping the hubs side to side and seeing if the driver side fits the passenger spindle and vice versa.
 
Still no luck? Did you do the driver side already? I can't imagine it being two different inner bearings in a single kit. That would justify a refund or at least replacement parts to me. Well, I hope you can figure it out. You might cringe at the idea if you did the driver side already, but you could try swapping the hubs side to side and seeing if the driver side fits the passenger spindle and vice versa.

I thought about that.... doesn't sound very appealling to me since I buttoned up the drivers side already.

I need to get it fixed today, so I'm not going to sweat the refund/adjustment just yet.
the game plan for today is.. (assuming I can source a new bearing and seal locally) is to...
remove the bearing from the hub and try to seat it on the spindle. If it fully seats, I'm not sure what to do at that point.
If it doesn't fully seat, figure out if I can do something about it. If I can, then I will solve the problem and be done.
Otherwise, purchase a new bearing and try that one before installing it.

very frustrating....
This project has taken me a lot longer than I anticipated.
Cleaning parts took several hours alone.
Getting the axles back connected to the CV also took me forever. Zip tie didn't work, hose clamp didn't work, finally had to bend the spring clips smaller, re-install them and then the axles popped on.

oh well... I'm almost done and did discover that the pre-load on the driver's side bearing was way off (you could shake the hub a lot), so even though it wasn't leaking, the rebuild was a good idea.

thanks for the help and ideas. I'll update later tonight.
 
Ok... latest status:

I removed the inner bearing and it was very difficult to slide onto the spindle. It would start on the final size increase, but would stop at maybe a bearing width on. I would have had to pound it or force it in some way.

The strange part is that was a lot farther out than the error I was having. (but I didn't think about this until later).

I went and bought a new bearing and seal and the new bearing slides all the way up the spindle as I would expect. (snug, but you can slide it up by hand)

I checked that the new seal would go all the way on the spindle as it should, which it did and then I installed the new bearing and seal. The seal is even with the back of the hub.

I am now getting it farther on, when I install the drive plate, now I can see the groove for the snap-ring, but I'm still maybe 1/16" too far out.

I think what I'm going to try and do is assemble it with everything but the snap ring, drive it very gently around the block and see if the bearing pre-load gets loose. If so, I'll remove the dust cover, see if I can see the groove, If so, I'll remove the drive plate and re-adjust the pre-load on the bearings.

I'm so many hours into this, I should have just taken it somewhere and forked over the grand (although I cringe at how someone would have solved this problem.
 
Strange, are these OEM parts? I've never heard of someone having trouble with parts fitting in this job.
 
I always hand fit all new parts before assembly-while I can see fit. Anything that's tight-use a file-smoothly-evenly-around the circumference. Look at it. File will take off any burr/nick/high spot-all it takes is one. Then light emery cloth around-try fit again. Bearings should slide on smoothly by hand.
 
Ok... latest status:

I removed the inner bearing and it was very difficult to slide onto the spindle. It would start on the final size increase, but would stop at maybe a bearing width on. I would have had to pound it or force it in some way.

The strange part is that was a lot farther out than the error I was having. (but I didn't think about this until later).

I went and bought a new bearing and seal and the new bearing slides all the way up the spindle as I would expect. (snug, but you can slide it up by hand)

I checked that the new seal would go all the way on the spindle as it should, which it did and then I installed the new bearing and seal. The seal is even with the back of the hub.

I am now getting it farther on, when I install the drive plate, now I can see the groove for the snap-ring, but I'm still maybe 1/16" too far out.

I think what I'm going to try and do is assemble it with everything but the snap ring, drive it very gently around the block and see if the bearing pre-load gets loose. If so, I'll remove the dust cover, see if I can see the groove, If so, I'll remove the drive plate and re-adjust the pre-load on the bearings.

I'm so many hours into this, I should have just taken it somewhere and forked over the grand (although I cringe at how someone would have solved this problem.
Did you compare the part numbers on the first and second inner bearings you used? Really strange that it would not fit correctly if it is the right bearing. Really sounds like it was the wrong part. JOhn
 
Also don't forget sometimes the axle is a bit too far in - note there's a threaded hole in the middle. One of the bolts for the hub flange is the correct size - I use a spare, thread it in a bit, and pull the axle out so the snap ring groove is in the right place. You should have about 1/2" or so past the groove when it's pulled all the way out.

Edit: ^^^ jinx!
 
All righty then... It turns out that everyone who thought it was the inner race... guess what, you were correct. Even though I checked that a half dozen times before this and thought it was seated, it wasn't.

I ended up getting a new bearing that slid onto the spindle easier (but it's still snug). I re-installed everything and it was closer, but still not right.

So at this point I had to re-think through anything it could be and it always came back to the hub not seating on to the spindle all of the way.... I checked the bearing race again.... and even though I could have sworn it was seated (as stated in my posts), it wasn't seated. So I guess that means I should never be TOO sure of myself.

Thanks for all of the help. It was very much appreciated and enough people said that the inner race wasn't seated, that I had to give it another look and it turns out that was the problem.

Now CruiseOrlando, I definitely don't have 1/2" between the end of the drive plate and the groove for the snap ring, more like 1/8" or maybe less? And the stub axle is pulled out all of the way.

At this point, I'm going to put a few miles on it and make sure I check the bearing pre-load before I drive it a long way to make sure the bearing races don't work their way in anymore based on my crummy race installing skills.

Once again, I really appreciate the help.
 
That's why I try to slip the thinnest feeler gauge in behind the race when I think I have the race driven home. Just to be sure.
Glad you got sorted out.
I did my F&R axle full service over Christmas break, almost everything new. My only regret was that I didn't set the front bearings a hair tighter. I used the fish scale and set 'em at the high end of the range, but I can barely feel a teeny bit of movement now, after a few hundred miles. I'm not going to worry yet.
 
Glad you figured it out. Usually when seating a race, it takes on a different 'tone' when hitting it once it's properly seated. I use the Harbor Freight race / seal installer myself - it fits these races perfectly (but apparently not so in the 3rd member as I recently found out).

Now CruiseOrlando, I definitely don't have 1/2" between the end of the drive plate and the groove for the snap ring, more like 1/8" or maybe less? And the stub axle is pulled out all of the way.

Hmmm. Not sure what to tell you there. I have about a 1/2" spacer behind each clip on each side for my part time hubs. How did you do your preload? That can bring things up nice and tight as well - even if you overdo it initially to make sure everything is seated correctly.

Any play in the bearings once the wheel is mounted?
 
Glad you figured it out. Usually when seating a race, it takes on a different 'tone' when hitting it once it's properly seated. I use the Harbor Freight race / seal installer myself - it fits these races perfectly (but apparently not so in the 3rd member as I recently found out).



Hmmm. Not sure what to tell you there. I have about a 1/2" spacer behind each clip on each side for my part time hubs. How did you do your preload? That can bring things up nice and tight as well - even if you overdo it initially to make sure everything is seated correctly.

Any play in the bearings once the wheel is mounted?


I tightened the inner nut to 48ft/lb, turned the hub several times, loosened it, tightened it again to 48ft/lb, loosened it and then made it as tight as I could by hand. Last night, there was no shake, but it turned smooth (but it's not like it's going to just spin with all of the seals, etc)

My plan is, in the next couple of days, to check the pre-load again and make sure it's not shaking. If it is, then I'll readjust the pre-load. If not, I'll call it good and check it again at the next oil change interval.

the good news on the issue with the space between the end of the hub and the snap-ring is that it's very even on both sides, and that seems like a good thing.

thanks for all of the help.
 
Glad you figured it out. Usually when seating a race, it takes on a different 'tone' when hitting it once it's properly seated. I use the Harbor Freight race / seal installer myself - it fits these races perfectly (but apparently not so in the 3rd member as I recently found out).



Hmmm. Not sure what to tell you there. I have about a 1/2" spacer behind each clip on each side for my part time hubs. How did you do your preload? That can bring things up nice and tight as well - even if you overdo it initially to make sure everything is seated correctly.

Any play in the bearings once the wheel is mounted?


I didn't notice the part time comment... It's very likely that the fit is different between the part time and full time hubs. But I have no idea...
 

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