Hub Conversion For 77 series (1 Viewer)

Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
6
Location
Hovd, Mongolia
I bought a '94 77 series Land cruiser last year. It has a lot of hard miles on it and I have been one by one dealing with long deferred maintenance issues. I live in Mongolia and so getting parts is always a big challenge.

The standard electromagnetic hubs probably hadn't been working for years and so with Old Blue's advice I was able to convert one side to a manual locking hub. The conversion worked just like Old Blue said it would, but I was uncertain that my welding, machining and creative improvising would stand up to the sand, and water I drive in. So I ordered a set of AVM 463 manual locking hubs.
IMG_0358.jpg

(This picture shows the original hubs with my version of Old Blue's conversion in place)

BUT they don't quite line up. The AVM 463 have 6 bolts, the original hubs have 10 plus one line up stud. If it weren't for the line up stud I could bolt the AVM hubs on with all 6 bolts. But because the line up stud doesn't line up I can only bolt the hubs on with 4 bolts.
IMG_0532.jpg

(the hub in this picture actually isn't the 463, and was to short to fit my vehicle)

Currently I am running on only 4 bolts but I am very hesitant to actually engage 4 wheel drive as it is a lot of torque for just 40% of the original compliment of bolts.

How can I remove the line up stud? Any other ideas? Any body have experience with this issue?
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
373
Location
Tampa, FL
 
Not sure if there's a better solution, I'm not familiar with electric locking hubs, but could you just pull the alignment pin out? I'd guess it's just press fit in there.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
573
Location
San Diego
 
Mine had the AVM conversion, which by the way is not the best way to go, and there was a spacer about 1/2" thick between the hub and AVM, should have come with the AVM's, did it not come with anything? In the future I would recommend converting to a real manual hub, its more involved but worth it.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
573
Location
San Diego
 
Mine were retrofitted with AVM by the PO, although they worked, appeared flimsy in my opinion so I converted them to full manual, by replacing the spindle and associated parts from a manual setup, kurt at cruiser outfitters has done all the part research and has everything you need for the conversion.
 
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
6
Location
Hovd, Mongolia
Hey guys thanks for your thoughts on this. I do agree that the AVM hubs are not the best option, manufacturing seems a little sloppy and they don't appear to be the most robust. On the positive side the AVM 463, is a full manual hub and doesn't require the 1/2 in spacer, it would bolt straight on if it weren't for the problem with the line up stud.

I am currently using them, albeit only with 4 bolts holding things together.

Any tips on how to get a hold of the line up stud in order to pull it out? Vice grips didn't cut it.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
412
Location
Nelson,New Zealand.
 
 
Do these AVM Hubs have CSK holes for fitting tapered collets. If not then with out the pins the hubs will work loose and may sheer the stud off.
You won't get any hub stronger than a converted electric to manual.
 
Last edited:

Indestructible 47

SILVER Star
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
1,147
Location
Straya
 
Can i just say for the purpose of learning why do people swap from the AISIN original ones? They are actually a very strong and reliable unit in my and others experience.

I can't really help with the question but if u are wanting to remove studs from the hub wind 2 nuts on and then with a ring spanner unwind the bottom one which will in turn hit the top nut, stop it and unwind the stud instead.
 
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
6
Location
Hovd, Mongolia
Do these AVM Hubs have CSK holes for fitting tapered collets. If not then with out the pins the hubs will work loose and may sheer the stud off.
You won't get any hub stronger than a converted electric to manual.
I agree with you entirely. Having seen what AVM is making compared with what I took off there is no question that the originals are better quality. I have saved the originals and will work on the conversions for the day when the AVMs fail.

Regarding your question about the tapered collets. The AVM 463 does come with the tapered "collets". Do you think I can run the hubs without the line up stud in place?
 

Gun Runner 5

KI4CMQ
SILVER Star
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
16,718
Location
Thomasville, GA
 
 
Thanks. Sorry I missed the picture. No one seems to keep the power locking hubs anyways.
Odd Iron has spent countless hours trying to improve the reliability of the 70 Series electric hubs. (my 77 Series was the shop's Guinea Pig). Because the motors employ gears that would be shunned by Timex, there will ALWAYS be issues with reliability. If you have a set that consistently works you should count yourself lucky. In the one instance where having mine work would have made a huge difference, they failed to engage.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 22, 2015
Messages
373
Location
Tampa, FL
 
Can i just say for the purpose of learning why do people swap from the AISIN original ones? They are actually a very strong and reliable unit in my and others experience.

I can't really help with the question but if u are wanting to remove studs from the hub wind 2 nuts on and then with a ring spanner unwind the bottom one which will in turn hit the top nut, stop it and unwind the stud instead.
His didn't come with Aisin manual hubs, I'm not sure if you guys got electric locking hubs in Australia. And he's trying to remove the centering pin, not the stud. It isn't threaded.
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
412
Location
Nelson,New Zealand.
 
 
Is it possible to get a piece of steel, drill a 9mm hole in it, then slip it over the pin, Then run a weld around the pin. ? then prise the pin out.
I would say with out the pins it may be OK as long as you aren't running dif locks in the front. Just keep an eye on it.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
2,078
Location
78229
 
Odd Iron has spent countless hours trying to improve the reliability of the 70 Series electric hubs. (my 77 Series was the shop's Guinea Pig). Because the motors employ gears that would be shunned by Timex, there will ALWAYS be issues with reliability. If you have a set that consistently works you should count yourself lucky. In the one instance where having mine work would have made a huge difference, they failed to engage.
Thanks. This thread caught my attention because I was in the midst of having @cwwfj60 rebuild my knuckles on the PZJ70 and he said one of the auto hubs was bad. He has somehow managed to revive the bad hub for some time longer though.

He also informed me that my rear end is LSD. :confused: I didn't know K085 was LSD and how I missed that. The label was not on the diff either or seems painted over.
 

Gun Runner 5

KI4CMQ
SILVER Star
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
16,718
Location
Thomasville, GA
 
 
Everyone should canalbalize one of the small engagement motors (the same motor that's responsible for bringing you home). If you don't have access to one of the motors simply look in the back of a Timex watch. (they're basically the same gears). :)
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2015
Messages
2,078
Location
78229
 
I was shown photos and a video of the damage by Cody. It wasn't pretty. I have a lot to learn still about these cruisers and one is that it is probably best to make the switch to fully manual AISIN hubs at some point. It just wasn't an option at the time.
 

elkaholic

Left turn ...freakin wipers!
SILVER Star
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
3,810
Location
Ridgeway, SC
 
I did the AVM 463 conversion to my 77. I am thinking something must be amiss. The hubs on my 77 had 2 dowel pins on them and the AVMs fit in on the 4 studs and two pins.

While I will agree the lockouthubs do not appear to be as robust as the OE hubs, I would argue the OE hubs are rally held on by 4 studs. The remaining two bolts are threaded into the hub after passing through the cap and hub body and are not torqued very tight nor do they have cone washers. I do plan to do a full Aisin conversion at the next birfield service.

B4D951D1-81E1-46BF-AA7E-8BA20D944288.jpeg
04C39A68-E1A4-453B-B761-C4D0F0DB5A92.jpeg

In the bottom photo you can barely see the second dowel pin at about 7:30 to the right of the stud. My thought process (right or wrong) is that the pins should be strong enough for how I will use the truck.
 
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
6
Location
Hovd, Mongolia
Thanks for this idea on how to pull the pins out. I will feel better with all 6 bolts torqued down, and regrettably don't have to worry about front diff locks.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top Bottom