How to verify mileage on HJ61 up for sale

[petermac]

I'm looking at a JDM 1988 HJ61 for sale with 134K on the odometer. The truck was recently imported to Canada but was not purchased at auction in Japan and therefore has no auction records to certify the mileage. Is there any other way to prove that the truck does infact have 134K on it and that the odometer has not been rolled back? Is it possible to obtain service and maintenance records from Japan using the VIN number from here in Canada? The vehicle appears to otherwise be in very good condition with no evidence of excessive wear or abuse - this assesment based on detailed photos and dealer testamony only (which of course may or may not be reliable). I have yet to inspect the vehicle in person. I would arrange to have the vehicle inspected by a mechanic prior to purchasing. It is being sold by a certified dealer who is willing to offer a third party warranty at extra cost.

Thanks for any help or input.

Peter

 

[brownbear]

Is the dealer a importer?

If someone has falseified the odo, you might be able to tell by condition. Hopefully.

Might be superhard to get any records from Japan on the VIN.
Thats "if" they used Toyota for servicing.

Through inspection will be required if you are not sure. Including getting a compression test done and going over eveything.

134 k should look quite nice, seats should have minimal breaking in. pedals should be still ok. steering should be tight.

I guess a lot depends on how it was treated.

Maybe Wayne can speak up about the ways to tell if the cluster was tampered with.

 

[light_duty]

Might be superhard to get any records from Japan on the VIN.
Thats "if" they used Toyota for servicing.

As far as I know, the original VIN is completely eradicated upon de-registration in Japan. When you go to register in BC, they'll issue a new VIN, but here in Alberta I just registered my LJ using the chassis number. The old VIN doesn't even appear on my export certificate, so I doubt there'd be any way to trace it back, unless the truck was JEVIC inspected before it left Japan. But that would only work if JEVIC was able to run a search based on chassis number.

http://www.jevic.co.jp/1e.htm

 

[mot]

An acquaintance(sp) of mine who runs a shop told me recently that it is not THAT unusual for one to roll back the odometer on auction rigs. He told me that if that rig has been through auction(s) before, then there should be a record(s) of its odometer reading in their file from previous auctions.

Also one of the main questions that buyers of used vehicles usually ask is if the vehicle has the service record booklet with it. You might want to ask the shop if wherever they purchased the vehicle from has it, if not, included in the glove box to verify.

Good luck!!

Mot

 

[mjohn7]

As the export certificate as well as the deregesrtation certifacate do not give milage at time of export, it would be best to go with an inspection of the truck. There have been trucks in Calgary with low mileage on the dash and once on a hoist the real mileage is evident.

It is common to have mileage rolled back prior to auction to make the truck more marketable. As said without service records and an understanding of Japenese take the said condition with a grain of salt.

 

[Tapage]

in my experience .. ( nothing scientific ) when you roll back ( old style ) on odometer, the speed gauge needle it oscillates constantly, is not accurate.

 

[crushers]

there was a HJ61 at auction a few months back that had around 36,000 km posted as actual milage but when inspected it was obvious the odometer had been tampered with.

my advice, if in doubt then walk.

if you are buying from someone you can trust and that KNOWS what he has then it just becomes a gamble (with your money of course). if the truck is in Alberta you can send the guy by and i will give it a once over. i have made this suggestion to those that are buying off curbers in the past and suddenly the truck is no longer for sale...
if in southern BC then get Greg and or Sheldon, or Steve to give it a once over , on the island get Rob at Radd cruisers a call and in Northern BC then try Marko at outback, Ontario try Adventure or Mike at Gozzard or Dave (damn i can't remember his last name).

this is my advice, take it for what it is worth. if you are looking for a HJ61 then Rob Forsyth has a nice one forsale.

cheers

 

[petermac]

if you are buying from someone you can trust and that KNOWS what he has then it just becomes a gamble (with your money of course). if the truck is in Alberta you can send the guy by and i will give it a once over. i have made this suggestion to those that are buying off curbers in the past and suddenly the truck is no longer for sale...
if in southern BC then get Greg and or Sheldon, or Steve to give it a once over , on the island get Rob at Radd cruisers a call and in Northern BC then try Marko at outback, Ontario try Adventure or Mike at Gozzard or Dave (damn i can't remember his last name).

this is my advice, take it for what it is worth. if you are looking for a HJ61 then Rob Forsyth has a nice one forsale.

cheers

Thanks Wayne. The guy is a registered dealer in Hamilton, Ontario. Doesn't know much about Cruisers it would seem. The truck is advertised in the Ontario autotrader (www.autotrader.com). He has no problem with me taking it to a mechanic for inspection. Truck comes certified and saftied.

Are there any cruiserheads in Hamilton that would be interested in inspecting the rig?

Thanks everyone!

 

[crushers]

PM sent.

sorry, i do not know anyone in that area, the closet is London...
cheers

 

[brownbear]

in my experience .. ( nothing scientific ) when you roll back ( old style ) on odometer, the speed gauge needle it oscillates constantly, is not accurate.

Hey mine does that. Oscillates at low speed. But I thought that was a dry speedo cable.......

 

[sevvy]

Yeah mine does as well......but smooths out at higher speeds.

 

[roscoFJ73]

When professionals alter the odometer reading they usually obtain a low klm odometer from a wreck so there will be no way of telling.

In my experience it will be the wear and tear on the interior that gives it away,
Everything a human must touch to operate a vehicle should be inspected closely.

 

[David*BJ70]

Hey mine does that. Oscillates at low speed. But I thought that was a dry speedo cable.......

Yeah mine does as well......but smooths out at higher speeds.

Me too ! ... so we all have rolled back odo cruiser !

 

[Tapage]

Hey mine does that. Oscillates at low speed. But I thought that was a dry speedo cable.......

Or maybe you have a diying speedo cable .. But I replace mine ( maybe 2 month ago ) and have the same oscilating issue ..

 

[crushers]

could be a cople of hte teeth on the nylon gear are worn out...

 

[lowenbrau]

Just because it came from an auction doesn't mean it hasn't been rolled back. I've heard of 90,000km rigs with 150,000km oil change stickers.

I've also seen low mile rigs that needed, clutches, waterpumps, rads etc. If you can handle the mechanincs yourself then you weigh the risk against the price. The better importers inspect and replace these kinds of items before they sell to you. If you have a mechanic do the work then I'd suggest shopping for an aftermarket warrenty (insurance). You do not need to buy this from the seller who is likely marking it up 300%. I was once told by a lawyer that my $1200 aftermarket warrenty cost the dealer $250.

 

[lshobie]

When buying a third party warranty from a dealer - make sure it is insured, not by asking the dealer - but by confirming through the insuring company. I think there are only 3 insured warranty companies for used cars in Canada.

I use "Coast to Coast" warranty co. for my customers, I have 2 sheets with dealer cost and customer rates. I give the warranty to my customers at dealer cost - and show them the sheets to prove it.

A 12 month 12,000 km limited warranty that covers seal replacement is about $220.00, they want me to charge $440 for it so i can put some money in my pocket. This warranty will only cover up to $1,500.00 in work. And that is the best 3rd party warranty available on used vehicles I believe - for vehicles 1990 and older with between 0 and 250,000kms.

On certain vehicles I give my own warranty on top of that one - written on the bill of sale.

I'd definatly have a cruiserhead check out that truck. If it requires a brake job for example it will cost near 2K if done by a toyota dealer - less if by a garage using s***ty jobber parts. A toyota dealer not used to dealing with JDM's will be scratching thier heads trying to figure out how to get parts for it - even though they are the same as the hj60 (brake parts). There are other important things to look for - mechanically speaking.

I spoke to the dealer selling that truck - he knows nothing about cruisers, just a dealer bringing in cruisers to try to make a quick buck perhaps. So if you are in Montreal and he is in Toronto dealing with him if you end up with a lemon will be difficult. Make sure it is a good deal - solid truck, or you will end up with a headache. Ask him about a return policy

In Ontario the MTO keeps the original VIN number, they dont change it or give it a new one. There is no way to research a vin number in Japan that I know of but will ask my guy there.

I don't buy from private sales in Japan, I was told that it isnt that safe - but who knows. I try to buy one owner rigs now with maint records, that way i know there is no fudging of the docs. It also shows that the oil was changed on a regular basis - one of the most important things on a turbo model. It also shows that the owner just plain cared for it.

Let us know what happens please.

PS, one thing I do personally when ever I look at a vehicle - I ask if I can take it to have the fluids changed. I have the diff's tranny/transfer fluid etc changed out. If the fluids are crappy and full of metal and sludge - then you might be looking at an abused (mechanically) vehicle. If the front diff oil is black and thick/chunky then it has grease in it - from the inner seals leaking - big dollars to get at those seals. Ask the dealer what type of pre inspection and maintenance he has done - other than a safety. A dealer has to divulge everything that he knows about that vehicle that could have an impact on you. If he changed something or knows that something has to be or is going to have to have something replacced - then he has to tell you. If it just came off the boat and into his yard for sale then you will have to spend a few bucks to have it in top condition - atleast i'd spend the money if the work wasn't done.

Regards

 

[Hawke]

I pretty much expected my jdm purchase to have a rolled back odometer. It seems, however, the reading is accurate (74,000 kms). There is nothing on the vehicle to indicate anything different. An experienced Toyota mechanic did some work on it and he agrees with the mileage on the odometer.

On the other hand, a friend of mine owns a shop that repairs Mercedes and recently had a customer bring in a 300E that was imported from Japan. The odometer read 32,000 kms but the vehicle was so tired that it probably had 300,000 kms instead, not joking. $2,800.00 worth of necessary repairs later the new owner could take the vehicle for a Saskatchewan safety inspection. The thing still had various oil leaks and an ominous engine knock upon start up.

 

[lshobie]

Damn, that's not the first time I've heard that. A good buyer in Japan should be able to recognize those problems.

 

[crushers]

I pretty much expected my jdm purchase to have a rolled back odometer. It seems, however, the reading is accurate (74,000 kms). There is nothing on the vehicle to indicate anything different. An experienced Toyota mechanic did some work on it and he agrees with the mileage on the odometer.

On the other hand, a friend of mine owns a shop that repairs Mercedes and recently had a customer bring in a 300E that was imported from Japan. The odometer read 32,000 kms but the vehicle was so tired that it probably had 300,000 kms instead, not joking. $2,800.00 worth of necessary repairs later the new owner could take the vehicle for a Saskatchewan safety inspection. The thing still had various oil leaks and an ominous engine knock upon start up.

ouch, that would suck... sorry to hear that happened to your friend...