How to value AHC suspension? (1 Viewer)

[baltistyle]

I wouldn't assign any particular value to AHC vs conventional suspension as it pertains to market pricing. Some people (like me) would want the AHC, but plenty of people aren't familiar with the system and would be just as happy to avoid it.





So that's definitely not true. Lots of people, myself included, remove AHC for other reasons than rust.

Having said that, I now recognize that was probably a mistake and I encourage anyone to keep the system when possible.



I feel like we'd be good friends in real life. And if we were really good friends, I would never not give you grief for choosing a Tesla over a V12 Benz.

Mongoose, I agree that there are other reasons and almost went back to edit (but that option was closed)that one of those reasons is for a bigger build. I was generalizing a stock for stock situation and referencing the rusty truck shown on BAT. In many instances people are converting or asking about converting otherwise stock trucks due to poor maintenance and rust, and they should be buying a non rusty well maintained vehicle vs worrying about the ahc.

I’ve personally never driven the v12, but it’s on my list in the next five years

 

[Blake1]

I love ahc .. the issue is all shops around me say they don’t touch AHC anymore .. so I maintain it myself . Swap fluid , etc . The reason I will delete it at some point is that shops don’t want to touch it or the lines

 

[suprarx7nut]

I love ahc .. the issue is all shops around me say they don’t touch AHC anymore .. so I maintain it myself . Swap fluid , etc . The reason I will delete it at some point is that shops don’t want to touch it or the lines

I think this is a great point. The system's reliable, inexpensive to maintain and high performing... but if shops are uneducated on it and refuse service it you've now got a personal time obligation.

Feel free to send my video and tutorial to shops nearby and offer an hourly rate beyond book hours if needed. More than a few shops have used that info to keep AHC going just fine.

 

[baltistyle]

I love ahc .. the issue is all shops around me say they don’t touch AHC anymore .. so I maintain it myself . Swap fluid , etc . The reason I will delete it at some point is that shops don’t want to touch it or the lines

I find it odd when shops turn down business. I think it’s because the are not just uneducated, but unqualified to do the repairs. Any competent tech should be able to read a manual or tech doc and follow the instructions. Sure, there is a reason for specialties, and the efficiencies that come with that, but you can’t grow a business and your employees by living in a box. If WE can do it laying on the ground in the street, they should be able to do it. A shop that says “not anymore” means they are either totally incompetent mechanics or never likely could work on them properly in the past… also due to being bad at their job. Any Toyota or Lexus shop should be able confidently diagnose and fix any ahc problem. The hourly rate should pay the bills and if not they need better mechanics or to raise their rates. It’s good business to be able to complete “rare” tasks for customers. We the costumer also need to give them time and not expect immediate perfection of old and aging systems. Ahc is still sold in new vehicles so any Toyota tech since 1998 should be properly educated and trained, and efficient. Plenty of hydraulic and air suspension systems use the same theories. I’m not a mechanic and I’ve done all the ahc maintenance and replacement, because it’s easy and fast.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I find it odd when shops turn down business. I think it’s because the are not just uneducated, but unqualified to do the repairs. Any competent tech should be able to read a manual or tech doc and follow the instructions. Sure, there is a reason for specialties, and the efficiencies that come with that, but you can’t grow a business and your employees by living in a box. If WE can do it laying on the ground in the street, they should be able to do it. A shop that says “not anymore” means they are either totally incompetent mechanics or never likely could work on them properly in the past… also due to being bad at their job. Any Toyota or Lexus shop should be able confidently diagnose and fix any ahc problem. The hourly rate should pay the bills and if not they need better mechanics or to raise their rates. It’s good business to be able to complete “rare” tasks for customers. We the costumer also need to give them time and not expect immediate perfection of old and aging systems. Ahc is still sold in new vehicles so any Toyota tech since 1998 should be properly educated and trained, and efficient. Plenty of hydraulic and air suspension systems use the same theories. I’m not a mechanic and I’ve done all the ahc maintenance and replacement, because it’s easy and fast.

If I had bandwidth for another business, I'd create a third party "AHC Education Thing" and go around promoting it to shops and create a network of "certified shops".

The trick is that the "by the book" approach form Toyota has you replacing ECUs, shocks and pump assemblies before you would try to clear out the return valve or inlet strainers. Or change a dead globe with bubbles, etc...

AHC can be easy to maintain, but I'd argue you have to specifically know when to ignore the manual. Otherwise you end up charging $8k in labor and the customer car still isn't fixed.

 

[Foehammer]

For me I bought my LX with the AHC leaking and a bit rusty. Deleting it was a great (albeit expensive) option but now I have a brand new stage 3 ironman 2" lift, with 3 year warranty. And it rides great; not as good as AHC but c'mon. It's a body on frame, 6000lb behemoth of an SUV.

 

[baltistyle]

If I had bandwidth for another business, I'd create a third party "AHC Education Thing" and go around promoting it to shops and create a network of "certified shops".

The trick is that the "by the book" approach form Toyota has you replacing ECUs, shocks and pump assemblies before you would try to clear out the return valve or inlet strainers. Or change a dead globe with bubbles, etc...

AHC can be easy to maintain, but I'd argue you have to specifically know when to ignore the manual. Otherwise you end up charging $8k in labor and the customer car still isn't fixed.

I guess I figure a good mechanic reads the entire procedure to understand all the variables. Then they use their experience to decide where to start.

Not sure if you ever watch legit street cars but when Alex worked on his abc on the cl and was discovering issues,I was wondering why as a former mb mechanic, he didn’t start diagnosing in a different manner. He sent tons of accumulator rubber through his system. In those cars, if a pipe blows, the first thing to also replace is the accumulators because they didn’t take the fluid shock.

Your help has been invaluable to many. It’s very clear and logical and lots of techs would be better if they had that info. Maybe do like mercedessource does and sell the video….

 

[MongooseGA]

A lot of the time, I'm more inclined to listen to the "developed over a long time" solutions discovered by the enthusiast communities/ indy mechanics over the FSMs. With access to factory manuals for decades, it's impossible for someone not to be able to find a way to improve upon some projects. Especially for maintenance projects being DIYd by owners without access to all the specialty tools dealers may have.

 

[baltistyle]

A lot of the time, I'm more inclined to listen to the "developed over a long time" solutions discovered by the enthusiast communities/ indy mechanics over the FSMs. With access to factory manuals for decades, it's impossible for someone not to be able to find a way to improve upon some projects. Especially for maintenance projects being DIYd by owners without access to all the specialty tools dealers may have.

Yup I can agree. The manual lays out a place to start and a background. Same with YouTube or forums. Different people learn differently. I do have a full set of fsm and rely on it for lots of information, even if I don’t follow exactly. It’s very quickly accessible and does not require lots of searching. Fortunately scan tools are extremely affordable these days and these cars are very easy to fix in general, they’re just heavy duty and more truck than “suv”.

 

[suprarx7nut]

I guess I figure a good mechanic reads the entire procedure to understand all the variables. Then they use their experience to decide where to start.

Not sure if you ever watch legit street cars but when Alex worked on his abc on the cl and was discovering issues,I was wondering why as a former mb mechanic, he didn’t start diagnosing in a different manner. He sent tons of accumulator rubber through his system. In those cars, if a pipe blows, the first thing to also replace is the accumulators because they didn’t take the fluid shock.

Your help has been invaluable to many. It’s very clear and logical and lots of techs would be better if they had that info. Maybe do like mercedessource does and sell the video….

I have seen his stuff actually, at least from a few years back before kids and business overtook every second of time I had to myself...

Alex's content is a part of why I got into the AMG stuff (and why AHC never scared me much).

There's definitely $$ to made in the specialized repair space. I had all kinds of ideas for a "webMD" for cars years ago. That's actually what inspired the YotaMD "brand" back in 2012. I was always too many months away from anything financially viable to take the concept seriously and then I figured out how to make physical products profitable and put the knowledge-base concept on the back burner. I'd love to see somebody else take that on. With modern website development platforms so incredibly accessible now (I was coding everything from scratch in HTML...) I think a dedicated person could make a really sweet platform - and probably find a few million dollars doing it if they caught a few breaks along the way.

A lot of the time, I'm more inclined to listen to the "developed over a long time" solutions discovered by the enthusiast communities/ indy mechanics over the FSMs. With access to factory manuals for decades, it's impossible for someone not to be able to find a way to improve upon some projects. Especially for maintenance projects being DIYd by owners without access to all the specialty tools dealers may have.

Yup I can agree. The manual lays out a place to start and a background. Same with YouTube or forums. Different people learn differently. I do have a full set of fsm and rely on it for lots of information, even if I don’t follow exactly. It’s very quickly accessible and does not require lots of searching. Fortunately scan tools are extremely affordable these days and these cars are very easy to fix in general, they’re just heavy duty and more truck than “suv”.

Yup. I always keep in mind the FSMs were all written with factory new vehicles. Those writers had relatively little idea what would be common failures in the future - if anyone knew the common failures, they would have simply fixed it and then you've got a new "common problem".

Writing an FSM for any car as a *used* car would look totally different than the FSM published by Toyota which is made to guide techs through mostly warranty repairs.

Subtle nuance, but important to keep in mind.

 

[ChaoticSquare]

The discussion has slightly moved on, but I would view a LX without AHC as a negative. It's a very simple system and works incredibly well! Like someone else mentioned, spend $1k and maybe a few hours replacing/flushing and you're good to go. I'm intrigued to see how long the globes last with a yearly fluid flushing. Best part is you don't even need to jack it up.

This talk of s65s and s55s has me rethinking my ls430 plan...

 

[baltistyle]

I have seen his stuff actually, at least from a few years back before kids and business overtook every second of time I had to myself...

Alex's content is a part of why I got into the AMG stuff (and why AHC never scared me much).

There's definitely $$ to made in the specialized repair space. I had all kinds of ideas for a "webMD" for cars years ago. That's actually what inspired the YotaMD "brand" back in 2012. I was always too many months away from anything financially viable to take the concept seriously and then I figured out how to make physical products profitable and put the knowledge-base concept on the back burner. I'd love to see somebody else take that on. With modern website development platforms so incredibly accessible now (I was coding everything from scratch in HTML...) I think a dedicated person could make a really sweet platform - and probably find a few million dollars doing it if they caught a few breaks along the way.






Yup. I always keep in mind the FSMs were all written with factory new vehicles. Those writers had relatively little idea what would be common failures in the future - if anyone knew the common failures, they would have simply fixed it and then you've got a new "common problem".

Writing an FSM for any car as a *used* car would look totally different than the FSM published by Toyota which is made to guide techs through mostly warranty repairs.

Subtle nuance, but important to keep in mind.

I too am in the production space and it truly is the balance between passion and profitability. Good products sell themselves and good efficiencies make them profitable, imo.

You’ve done a great job with your offerings.

 

[jaewastooshort]

This talk of s65s and s55s has me rethinking my ls430 plan...

I see there's lots of overlap here with my non-100 series interests... I'd been shopping for an E55 for a while after seeing LSC's AMG wagons and falling in love with them and their apparent reliability, but recently have been looking for an inexpensive, high mileage LS430 for my kid who's about to start driving.

I find it odd when shops turn down business. I think it’s because the are not just uneducated, but unqualified to do the repairs. Any competent tech should be able to read a manual or tech doc and follow the instructions. Sure, there is a reason for specialties, and the efficiencies that come with that, but you can’t grow a business and your employees by living in a box. If WE can do it laying on the ground in the street, they should be able to do it. A shop that says “not anymore” means they are either totally incompetent mechanics or never likely could work on them properly in the past… also due to being bad at their job.

For a Toyota/Lexus specialist, I'd probably agree, but for a general shop, there may just not be enough demand to dedicate someone's time to learning a system that is in low demand, or where there's a high risk that a misdiagnosis would result in a dissatisfied customer and eating the cost of rework, not to mention the added cost of a necessary tool like TechStream. I'm sure it's easier for an end-user to get away with a bootleg copy for home use, but might be a lot riskier for a shop that's making money off using the tool. I can see lots of ways that it might just not add up to be profitable to bother... couple that with the higher demand for repairing cars in general, and the added time and headache may just be taking away time from a tech that's already got more to do than time. Just my opinion based on observation with my usual shops.

 

[baltistyle]

I see there's lots of overlap here with my non-100 series interests... I'd been shopping for an E55 for a while after seeing LSC's AMG wagons and falling in love with them and their apparent reliability, but recently have been looking for an inexpensive, high mileage LS430 for my kid who's about to start driving.

For a Toyota/Lexus specialist, I'd probably agree, but for a general shop, there may just not be enough demand to dedicate someone's time to learning a system that is in low demand, or where there's a high risk that a misdiagnosis would result in a dissatisfied customer and eating the cost of rework, not to mention the added cost of a necessary tool like TechStream. I'm sure it's easier for an end-user to get away with a bootleg copy for home use, but might be a lot riskier for a shop that's making money off using the tool. I can see lots of ways that it might just not add up to be profitable to bother... couple that with the higher demand for repairing cars in general, and the added time and headache may just be taking away time from a tech that's already got more to do than time. Just my opinion based on observation with my usual shops.

Yeah, I can agree on the specialist or brand specific part of the statement. I dont consider "general" shops in my range of choice. Im not saying to show up to a two bay shop at a gas station by any means, though I will say that a friends dad had that setup and he was a Porsche master mechanic... I do stand by the fact that any fully competent mechanic can diagnose problems outside their general scope of brand since there is a lot of overlap in operating principles.

Speaking of,

I had an e55 as well. I really like the AMG engines and experience. Personally I think an 06 e55 or 06 s55 (currently have an 03) is a great combo of engine and features and durability. Definitely not for a new driver however. The 63 wagon I have is one of only 59 total wagons they brought in in '13 and that thing is a beast as stock with the stock power package (p30). Those engines can have greater problems but im very anal on maintenance and its been great so far. With its rarity I won't be afraid for when it does (possibly) need a rebuilt engine long down the road as it will still be less expensive than a new vehicle. It also helps that I have a warranty for a long time and lower miles. Depending on engine and want, AMG had the best quality from 03-19. Supply constraints happened shortly thereafter and big tech changes happened at the same time, ensuring lots of problems.

Sorry for taking this off topic but it seems we all love similar machines.

 

[MrMikeyG]

I'm considering an LX470. I love the idea of AHC for my use case. One rig I am considering already has AHC partially deleted. I see a huge difference in what people seem to pay for the various parts (I'm no stranger to Amayama and partsouq). But, what if one needs more than globes and fluid? At what point would some of you "AHC fans" cut the cord? bad lines, bad sensors, multiple failures?
Trying to get the rig I am considering to a shop familiar with AHC for an inspection is a s--t show due to mine and the sellers schedule and the vehicle/seller location. For arguments sake, I know for sure I need new rear rams and likely globes and fluid. If there's more that's wrong, at some point a traditional system is cheaper right?

 

[baltistyle]

Most of us that love it would likely say that only pervasive rust would be a determining factor.

 

[ChaoticSquare]

I would not buy a car with AHC deleted unless everything else was perfect, including color, and the price was right. Some things aren’t worth the time/money and you never know how someone went to delete. Find a car with AHC still on.

 

[RockDriver]

I would not buy a car with AHC deleted unless everything else was perfect, including color, and the price was right. Some things aren’t worth the time/money and you never know how someone went to delete. Find a car with AHC still on.

Same. I found my HDJ100 with fully working AHC and I intend to keep it that way, even though globe replacement is somewhere in not so distant future.

 

[LC Lurker]

Most of us that love it would likely say that only pervasive rust would be a determining factor.

I’ve only driven my LX for 100 miles so far and I can 100% agree with this statement. I’m never voluntarily deleting the AHC system - it’s wonderful. I’m praying that the dealer doesn’t find anything gravely wrong with it when I take it in.

It’s probably the smoothest suspension I’ve ever driven. Although, my last vehicle was a Jeep Gladiator so kinda two different ends of the spectrum as far as ride quality ha.

Just a magnificent ride quality, I can’t say that enough.

 

[baltistyle]

I’ve only driven my LX for 100 miles so far and I can 100% agree with this statement. I’m never voluntarily deleting the AHC system - it’s wonderful. I’m praying that the dealer doesn’t find anything gravely wrong with it when I take it in.

It’s probably the smoothest suspension I’ve ever driven. Although, my last vehicle was a Jeep Gladiator so kinda two different ends of the spectrum as far as ride quality ha.

Just a magnificent ride quality, I can’t say that enough.

First rule of fight club….find a good independent and do not frequent a dealer.