Dumb question, I know. I have had them off before. Any tricks to getting them to stop leaking upon reinstallation. I just swapped in some rebuilt injectors. Thanks for any ideas.
84' BJ60 317km
84' BJ60 317km
how to tighten injector lines (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter duckling
- Start date
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where are they leaking? silly question, did you install all the gear, including the copper washers? The lines going to them need to be tightened to a certain torque (for some reason I have 27ftlbs stuck in my head but that's likely wrong).
As Fantom says you need new gasket washers under the injector with the concave side facing up and tighten to 51ft lbs .
The nozzle leakage pipe should have new gaskets top and bottom on the 6 pick up points and tighten to 36ft/lbs
Torque the cap union nuts to 22ft lbs and make sure you replace all line clamps.
This is for a 2H so 3B may be a little different. cheers
The nozzle leakage pipe should have new gaskets top and bottom on the 6 pick up points and tighten to 36ft/lbs
Torque the cap union nuts to 22ft lbs and make sure you replace all line clamps.
This is for a 2H so 3B may be a little different. cheers
Where the "extreme pressure lines" connect to your injectors and injector pump - try putting a good quality grease on the threads before tightening the nuts.
This converts more of your tightening torque into the type of force you really want. ( ie. pushing the ferules down into their seats.)
PS. Don't forget to apply grease to the tops of the ferrules too.
This converts more of your tightening torque into the type of force you really want. ( ie. pushing the ferules down into their seats.)
PS. Don't forget to apply grease to the tops of the ferrules too.
- Thread starter
- #5
The injectors, from HIFlo in Aus came with all new seats and gaskets. They are all in the right position. Anyway, the leak is not from under the injectors, just where the lines connect on the pump and the injectors. After a good run last night, there are to to the pump and one to injector 4 that are leaking. Grease? OK. Would MP wheel bearing grease do the job? Thanks again.
cruiser_guy
Out of Africa / North Africa
First check if there are any burrs on the ends of the lines. I've had a burr on one that caused a leak. I've never needed to use grease on those lines and really, with the pressure they work under grease is not going to seal anything though it may help get them a little tighter.
If you start cranking on them make sure you have a 27mm wrench to back up the injector or you'll over torque those and end up busting the leakage pipe when the injector turns by accident.
If you start cranking on them make sure you have a 27mm wrench to back up the injector or you'll over torque those and end up busting the leakage pipe when the injector turns by accident.
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Yep. That'll do.
Good point about the burrs.
If the injectors are torqued down properly I wouldn't expect them to turn unless you're well-and-truly over-torquing your line-nuts.
I had similar trouble to Duckling when I fitted reconditioned injectors. (I had a leak from one injector nut/ferrule.)
The grease is not being used for sealing purposes.
- Thread starter
- #8
I think I got it. More grease to get it turning smoothly. Probably not tightening enough to start. Pulls very nicely with the new injectors. Thanks for the replies.
Do NOT grease the threads! You'll end up overtorquing the connector and mangling the lines. Dry torque numbers take into account the friction of the dry threads so that you get the right holding force.
If the lines are leaking it means they are not mating up right with the injectors. Possibly dirt or a little corrosion. Take some scotch brite and clean the ends of the lines and the inlet to the injector (be very careful not to let any debris fall into the injector...hold the injector upside down above the scotch brite so that anything falls out not in). Use new gaskets like Fantom said. If it's all clean and smooth, you shouldn't leak.
If the lines are leaking it means they are not mating up right with the injectors. Possibly dirt or a little corrosion. Take some scotch brite and clean the ends of the lines and the inlet to the injector (be very careful not to let any debris fall into the injector...hold the injector upside down above the scotch brite so that anything falls out not in). Use new gaskets like Fantom said. If it's all clean and smooth, you shouldn't leak.
Injector hi jack
I am getting ready to by injectors from "diesel and performance" in OZ (ebay) and he suggested that since I am having cold start issues but running well when warm that my injectors may be leaking overnight. Has anyone heard of this? He also said I may have a bad spray pattern--Which makes more sense to me. If I do have leaking overnight how can I tell. Ran a can of Liqui Moly Diesel Purge last weekend to a nicer engine sound but still hard to start.
I am getting ready to by injectors from "diesel and performance" in OZ (ebay) and he suggested that since I am having cold start issues but running well when warm that my injectors may be leaking overnight. Has anyone heard of this? He also said I may have a bad spray pattern--Which makes more sense to me. If I do have leaking overnight how can I tell. Ran a can of Liqui Moly Diesel Purge last weekend to a nicer engine sound but still hard to start.
Yes, injectors can leak or be improperly shimmed. I haven't heard of it causing problems with starting other than a big cloud of black smoke. Injector tips can be worn or carbonized up. The only way to take the guess out of it, is to pull them and put them on an injector tester to check for leaks, breaking pressure and spray pattern.
If you buy new ones, if they don't want the cores, keep your old injectors. You can rebuild them yourself if you make or buy your own injector tester. I've got one on order for myself and also have a bunch of replacement nozzles and some shims. All I need now is to track down the crush washers. If you have a second set of injectors, then you can always rebuild them at your convenience and have them ready to install at the first signs of problems.
If you buy new ones, if they don't want the cores, keep your old injectors. You can rebuild them yourself if you make or buy your own injector tester. I've got one on order for myself and also have a bunch of replacement nozzles and some shims. All I need now is to track down the crush washers. If you have a second set of injectors, then you can always rebuild them at your convenience and have them ready to install at the first signs of problems.
More explanation please...
With grease on the threads ... and more importantly ... with grease above the ferrule ... I'd expect far less of your nut-torque to exert "twisting force" on your injector lines. (So in my view .."mangling your injector lines" is LESS likely.)
And I never suggested any "extra torque". I simply suggested applying the same torque ... but with grease present.
RufusTheDufus
SILVER Star
What do you mean by cold start issues? I had excessive blue smoke (unburned fuel) on both my BJ42 and HJ45. I thought it was air in the system and bled and bled with no improvement. Both engines would start great if they had been run within the prior 12 hours. I replaced the injectors in both hoping it would fix the problem. It didn't fix the horrible unburned fuel/smoke at cold start problems.
My problem was related to my glow plug circuit. Both vehicles had developed too much resistance in the wire feeding the buss bar that provides power to the plugs. I guess that will happen in a vehicle that's 25+ years old. Battery cables go bad with time, so will glow plug circuit wiring especially if it's been in a humid environment for some of its life.
Rufis.
Over the past 18 months my BJ 60 has been getting harder to start in the morning. All winter long I plugged it in and no problem. Now I go to start and it is above freezing maybe 38* / 8* C (I'm working in the mountains) and it takes 6-10 cycles w/ the glow plugs (replaced last year) then a big cough of blue smoke. then once warm fires right up. Humidity is not an issue in Alberta but the years could be the issue with the wiring. So what did you do? rewire, obviously>
I think I'm going to start w/ the injectors 'cause I know they haven't been serviced is a long time and I just got my turbo installed and it sounds like a change might be due. Then maybe look into a rewire of the glow plug bus bar.
Joe
Over the past 18 months my BJ 60 has been getting harder to start in the morning. All winter long I plugged it in and no problem. Now I go to start and it is above freezing maybe 38* / 8* C (I'm working in the mountains) and it takes 6-10 cycles w/ the glow plugs (replaced last year) then a big cough of blue smoke. then once warm fires right up. Humidity is not an issue in Alberta but the years could be the issue with the wiring. So what did you do? rewire, obviously>
I think I'm going to start w/ the injectors 'cause I know they haven't been serviced is a long time and I just got my turbo installed and it sounds like a change might be due. Then maybe look into a rewire of the glow plug bus bar.
Joe
Sorry, I wasn't very clear. So please forgive me if I get a bit obvious here, but here goes....
Torque is the amount of turning force applied to the fastener. Preload is the amount of axial force applied to the bolt or in this case the injector and fuel line. Torque = Preload x coefficient of friction. Engineers figure up what the torque should be to get a desired preload. As you indicated, when you grease the threads, you reduce the friction. So to get the same torque value you increase the preload. Most torques are dry torques, i.e. assume that the threads are clean and dry. Engine manuals will often specify wet torques for certain applications (king bolts for crank shaft bearings, head bolts, etc) but they are always called out specifically. The 1KZ-TE manual, for instance says, for installing the head: (a) Apply a light coat of engine oil on the threads and under the heads of the cylinder head bolts. (b) Install and uniformly ighten... Then when you go look at the injector nozzles and pipes you see no instruction to coat with oil or grease and with the nozzles, a note: NOTICE: Over torquing could cause nozzle deformation and needle adhesion or other defects. When you look at the instructions to install the injection pipes there is no instruction to coat with oil. Note also that the torques for the pipes are low...11 ft-lbs for the 1KZ, 18 ft-lbs for the 3B.
The low torques are because over torquing or increasing the preload can result in spreading and distorting it the flare on the fuel line, or in ridging or distorting the mating surface on the injector (though admittedly the latter is not very likely). In the case of other applications increasing the preload will over stretch the bolt, causing it to fail, or will cause gaskets to crush, crush and distort or tear o-rings...or other bad things.
So...unless the manual calls for it, greasing threads (or applying loc-tite since it acts as a lubricant until it sets up) is a bad idea.
I hope that didn't get too, umm, pedantic.
Cheers!
J
Welcome! Hope it was helpful
J
J
