How to cut and reattach coil spring spacers?

[willfromutah]

Hello All,
After much searching I purchased a 1991 FJ80 and have begun digging into the build. I have completed some baseline maintenance with a LOT of time spent learning from others on this site, so THANK YOU ALL:
New Battery, Starter, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, water pump, radiator, hoses, steering pump, O2 sensor, and some other misc. things.

So here’s the problem, when going over sharp dips in the road I hear a loud hollow “gong” noise, almost like the bump stops are hitting (I’m guessing?) I figured the suspension was tired and I planned to replace it anyways so I purchased an OME 2.5-3” kit from Cruiser Outfitters, it is their “heavy load level stance” kit.
When I started looking more closely under the vehicle I realized the PO cut the stock front coil spring brackets off and welded them to extension spacers and then welded them back onto the axle. He also added extensions to the shocks to make the shorter shocks fit. I’m guessing the short springs and short shocks are part of my problem when I hit dips?
The problem now is, I need to cut out the spacers in order to return to stock and install the OME, but I’m not sure how to reattach the bracket to the axel. Some questions I have:

1. Was the bracket that the spring sits on originally welded to the axle?

2. Cutting it off and removing the spacer seems pretty straight forward but I don’t have access to a welder to reattach the original mount. Is there a safe way to bolt this mount back where it should be? A U bolt or other method?

3. If I find someone to weld them back on for me, do I need to drop the axle and disassemble everything to protect it from heat while welding them back on? Looks like the brake cable is pretty close by.

4. It looks like the mounts are directional and there’s a stop for the end of the spring so the spring is rotated in a certain position. How do I know which position to reattach the mounts? I couldn’t find any good photos online of the original orientation.

I was hoping to do the suspension myself to save money for other repairs but since I don’t have a welder I may need to take this in. It seems silly to pay a shop to remove and replace the old coil spring spacers and then NOT have them slide in the new OME equipment I bought. Looks like I may be paying them to install the lift also.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, I am a novice with all things suspension related and have just started my journey into the 80 world. Thank you very very much.

This is the rear, it looks like a spacer on top of the spring? I’m not sure how it is attached or what it is.

 

[jonheld]

IMO, I wouldn't even try to fix this. You'd be better off finding used axle housings.

 

[jpoole]

The gong sound looks like it's being caused by the inside of your front springs catching the bump stop/tower that's inside the front coil springs, up top. Your questions go well beyond this single issue but better spring alignment so that the spring stays centered around the bump stops (equal space all around the bump stop inside the spring) through travel should resolve some/all of that noise. You have multiple options for improving spring alignment including changing the angle of the surfaces that the spring ends rest on.

 

[NLXTACY]

Holy hell! I’ve never seen that done before

 

[willfromutah]

The gong sound looks like it's being caused by the inside of your front springs catching the bump stop/tower that's inside the front coil springs, up top. Your questions go well beyond this single issue but better spring alignment so that the spring stays centered around the bump stops (equal space all around the bump stop inside the spring) through travel should resolve some/all of that noise. You have multiple options for improving spring alignment including changing the angle of the surfaces that the spring ends rest on.

That is a great observation! I hadn’t thought that the sound could be the spring catching. Now that you mention that, the sound made is exactly like what you are describing. It is not so much a hit like I would imagine the bump stops hitting would make.

I was hoping to return it to stock and then pray that putting the kit from Cruiser Outfitters on would resolve the issues.

Thank you for the input

 

[Heckraiser]

1. Was the bracket that the spring sits on originally welded to the axle?

2. Cutting it off and removing the spacer seems pretty straight forward but I don’t have access to a welder to reattach the original mount. Is there a safe way to bolt this mount back where it should be? A U bolt or other method?

3. If I find someone to weld them back on for me, do I need to drop the axle and disassemble everything to protect it from heat while welding them back on? Looks like the brake cable is pretty close by.

4. It looks like the mounts are directional and there’s a stop for the end of the spring so the spring is rotated in a certain position. How do I know which position to reattach the mounts? I couldn’t find any good photos online of the original orientation.

I was hoping to do the suspension myself to save money for other repairs but since I don’t have a welder I may need to take this in. It seems silly to pay a shop to remove and replace the old coil spring spacers and then NOT have them slide in the new OME equipment I bought. Looks like I may be paying them to install the lift also.

1) Yes, the spring perch is welded to the stock axle
2) Spring perch must be welded on. I wouldn't trust a bolt in this application, consequences of failure are too catastrophic.
3) This is grey area, if tackling this project, I would personally drop the axle to have better access to the work space. I probably would not tear down the axle if it as been recently serviced and has good seals and fluids. If the history is unknown, or it's due for a rebuild, this is the perfect time to do it. You can avoid damaging the axle housing by stitch welding in short intervals, giving it time to cool between welds. Especially since the spring perch sits on that little bracket above the axle housing surface, there is a little room for safety here.
4) The indentation for the end of the spring to settle into should be oriented towards the front of the truck on the rear axle with the stop just a little bit past straight forward clockwise.

rear:

front:
The spring stop for the front axle is oriented towards the front of the vehicle on the driver's side and towards the back of the vehicle on the passenger side.

5) That rear spacer at the top of the spring looks more like a traditional spacer. I would remove the springs and see if it just drops out. There isn't anything funky going on at the bottom of the rear spring?

6) I'm with @jonheld here. If you're not a competent welder or don't know someone you really trust to do it right and you're not going to be there watching over their shoulder, best bet is to find a new front axle housing. Honestly, I'm not sure I would even try this without another known good axle sitting next to me as a reference.

 

[willfromutah]

IMO, I wouldn't even try to fix this. You'd be better off finding used axle housings.

Yikes…I hope it doesn’t come to that. That’s an expense I wasn’t planning on.

Thanks for the input

 

[Heckraiser]

Just to clarify my ninja-edit above:
The spring stop for the front axle is oriented towards the front of the vehicle on the driver's side and towards the back of the vehicle on the passenger side.

 

[willfromutah]

1) Yes, the spring perch is welded to the stock axle
2) Spring perch must be welded on. I would trust a bolt in this application, consequences of failure are too catastrophic.
3) This is grey area, if tackling this project, I would personally drop the axle to have better access to the work space. I probably would not tear down the axle if it as been recently serviced and has good seals and fluids. If the history is unknown, or it's due for a rebuild, this is the perfect time to do it. You can avoid damaging the axle housing by stitch welding in short intervals, giving it time to cool between welds. Especially since the spring perch sits on that little bracket above the axle housing surface, there is a little room for safety here.
4) The indentation for the end of the spring to settle into should be oriented towards the front of the truck on both axles, with the stop just a little bit past straight forward clockwise.

rear:

front:


5) Rear spacer at the top of the spring looks more like a traditional spacer. I would remove the springs and see if it just drops out. There isn't anything funky going on at the bottom of the rear spring?

6) I'm with @jonheld here. If you're not a competent welder or don't know someone you really trust to do it right and you're not going to be there watching over their shoulder, best bet is to find a new front axle housing.

Thanks for all the answers @Heckraiser
Your photos are very helpful. The spring perch (now I know the real name) looks like it is angled and I can now determine from your photos that the PO welded them on with the little slot on the side of the perch pointing towards the inside of the vehicle. In your photo I can see the slot is supposed to be facing the outside of the vehicle. The spring ends are also facing the rear not the front.
That would make it angled in the wrong direction and might be adding to the spring hitting the bump stop like @jpoole suggested.

As for the new seals/fluids. I was planning to rebuild the birfs next and have purchased new seals and bearing already. I purchased longer brake lines so was planning new brake fluid there anyways. Are there other seals and fluids I should be weary if that the heat from welding might damage?

I’ll grab a photo of the rear axle where the springs rest.

 

[willfromutah]

Just to clarify my ninja-edit above:
The spring stop for the front axle is oriented towards the front of the vehicle on the driver's side and towards the back of the vehicle on the passenger side.

Looks like both of my spring ends are facing the rear. The rear axle appears to be unmodified, the spring perches seem to be original.

 

[willfromutah]

Oops, didn’t attach, one of the passenger side.

 

[Shipwreck]

I'm with @jonheld on this one. It might seem like a big expense to find a new axle housing, but maybe not. If you are not a competent welder/fabricator then you are looking at paying a shop to correct the previous owners hack job. I suspect many would refuse to take on this job.

If you source a new axle, you can sell your existing axle to the mini-truck crowd looking for an upgrade or someone wanting to do a 3-link suspension. They will cut off all the existing perches anyway, so for them the extensions won't matter.

I'd be more concerned with the rear spacers if they are welded to the frame. That could be a bigger problem if the frame has been modified.

 

[Heckraiser]

Also, some material will be lost in cutting the perch and spacers off (and some was probably lost when this was done in the first place). Just cutting them apart and welding them back together, the perches will likely not line up quite right and have some non-factory angle to them due to the material lost in the cutting process and just eyeballing putting them back right. So you might still have bendy springs binding and interfering with the bumpstops when you're done. This is why I say I probably wouldn't try this without a good axle to use as a reference and take measurements off of. All of this points towards just getting a new axle being your best option. I wouldn't want to go through all that work and end up with anything less than "correct."

 

[mudgudgeon]

if you can weld, I'd say definitely have a crack at fixing it.
you're in the right track already digging for info and pics. chase the rabbit hole a bit further until you're sure you know what you need.

if you can't weld, definitely consider replacement housing or learn to weld.

as far as losing material, cut it away sacrificing the bits you want to get rid of, don't cut into the good bit.
carefully grind away excess metal from the parts you need.

I'd guess a weekend would take care of this for someone with half decent tool skills who can handle a grinder and welder.
I've taken on much bigger stuff on a daily driver on a weekend
all you have to lose is a bit of time.
Doesn't work out? source a used axle.

YMMV

 

[aclos3]

I am not sure if I understand this. Did someone just want the look of a lift, but not want to buy taller springs? So they added a spacer at the top and a big "spacer" in the form of that elevated spring perch? The handling and articulation must be horrible.. all to save $250 on a set of new springs.

 

[thatcabledude]

IMO, sourcing a new axle housing to fix this is totally ridiculous. Cut that crap off and weld the perch back on.

Can you tell what was don’t forget caster correction, if anything?

 

[YMT]

@willfromutah, where in Utah are you? There's plenty of 4x4 shops in the state, especially SLC and Moab areas, who can also install the lift. Check out your local clubhouse on here, for folks to recommend a shop if you're wanting Land Cruiser specific.

 

[willfromutah]

Thank you guys for the input.

@mudgudgeon thanks for the confidence boost. I have actually welded a bit in the past but never anything under a vehicle. I have stick and mig welded lots of tube steel for railings but I was not concerned about heating anything up and they weren’t structural. I’ve brazed very thin steel to fabricate steel bicycle frames but this was delicate work and, again, lots of heat and a flame which made me nervous under the vehicle.

I can get ahold of a light duty welder but not sure if it could handle this steel without preheating with a torch.

I received a quote from a local shop to install the lift and correct the spring perches (cut the spacers off and reattach) the quote was for $1600.

I’m thinking maybe I’ll prep everything in my driveway and see if I can find a mobile welder to come by my house and weld them back on.

@aclos3 I’m guessing they just wanted to lift it CHEAP. That or components weren’t available? I’m not sure if the springs and shocks are stock or off some random vehicle. So much more effort and cost to fix it than doing it right the first time. It actually drives great, but I’ve haven’t taken it offroad yet.

@thatcabledude This was the approach I was hoping to take, cut it off and try, then worst case scenario look into new axle housing. I just didn’t know if this was a reckless approach. I can’t tell about caster correction, I’ll take some pictures.

@YMT I am in Salt Lake City, I didn’t realize there are local clubhouses on here, I will figure out how to enquire there and see if there are any recommendations for mobile welding services so I can tackle the rest of the install.

 

[willfromutah]

I’m not sure how to tell if bushings or anything has been done to correct caster. This is how it looks now, seems to be angled toward the rear of the vehicle? Is this how it should look stock?

 

[BILT4ME]

I’m not sure how to tell if bushings or anything has been done to correct caster. This is how it looks now, seems to be angled toward the rear of the vehicle? Is this how it should look stock?

View attachment 2942794

View attachment 2942795

View attachment 2942796

There's no caster correction done to the arms on there.

You can cut and weld on that housing with it sitting in that position. No special steels, as long as you don't burn through, there's no issue.