How I overheated my 2F and blew my Head Gasket.... Rebuild head or Engine?

[Rockymtnreaper]

Hey guys, I have talked with a couple of you asking questions and kinda getting a feel for what to rebuild next and how things are supposed to look but I wanted to get some more opinions and see if anyone else would have some different insight or input.

A couple of weeks ago I drove my 60 from Colorado to California, and a couple of hours into my trip my Aluminum radiator failed and started leaking antifreeze. Frustrated because this is my third aluminum replacement radiator, and needing to get to California, I stupidly chose to put some alumiseal in my system instead of topping it off and turning around.

Here is a photo after a few seconds after stopping.

So, I put some alumiseal in it, topped it off and hit the road. No problems drove a couple hours and made it all the way to Flagstaff for the night.

The next day it was running good, staying cool as I made my way to California, once I crossed the border the temperature started climbing but nothing too alarming since it was 104 degrees outside and then once I stopped to cool myself down. I checked the temps and it was peaking almost into the red so I decided to hang out for a little bit and let it cool down before trying to keep going.

Truck started running cool again so I decided to try to get up to highway speed as fast as I could to get some air to help keep it cool, unfortunately, it was up a grade and instantly started climbing. Then it made its way up into the red, as I went to pull over the engine vapor locked and shut down.

I didn't have any distilled with me, so I had to use the normal water that I filled up with before leaving Colorado to mix with some antifreeze. It was eating antifreeze at this time. I pour water on the radiator to try to cool it down faster. Finally got it opened and then added some fluids and one it cooled down I limped it up the rest of the grade with my hazards on until I got to the top of Chiroco Summit. Where I let it cool down again and decided what I was going to do.

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

Since the rest of the way to Palm Springs is all downhill, after an hour or so I hopped back on the road after topping the fluids off again... The temperature held all the way there no problem. Made it all the way to a family members house and crashed for the night.

The next couple days I limped in through the desert and got it to Big Bear Lake, CA. I tried to figure out what I could do to get it to stay running cool, I replaced the fan clutch because when the engine was running and getting hot it wasn't engaging. Ordered a new radiator and a thermostat and water pump after I pulled mine to look at it and it had a ton of mineral build up from normal water. (Not sure if the previous owner mixed it correctly before I got it.)

New CSF Radiator.

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

Put all the new parts in, decided to flush the engine and refill it and see if I could get it to run without a little bit of smoke. Well it actually started smoke worse, a lot worse.

So I started investigating... Nasty.

Pulled the Head.

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

Found a steam cleaned Piston in Cylinder #1

HG around the first cylinder.

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

As I was cleaning the carbon build up, I saw the top of this piston that was all chewed up from something getting in there (I am thinking metal parts of the HG, but this was in cylinder #3. What do you think about this? Just grind it smooth and run it? It has the same marks on the head.

Some scoring on the walls, when is this considered serious and needs boring? I haven't pulled any pistons to inspect rings or anything.

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

Here is a photo of the block before I cleaned anything.

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

Compression test


Cold

#1 125
#2 120
#3 115
#4 115
#5 115
#6 100


Warm

#1 135
#2 120
#3 120
#4 120
#5 110
#6 103


Wet

#1 135
#2 140
#3 130
#4 130
#5 123
#6 125

 

[DickM]

I know your pain. Pretty much the same scenario trying to get home and convince myself that the head gasket really wasn't the problem.
Is the piston top damage in the same cylinder with the worst wall scoring? if so, it could be broken rings.
Good luck, you have some tough decisions to make.

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

So what I am wondering is should I just clean up the block the best I can, get the head checked, then rebuilt by the machine shop with new springs, valves, galley plug fix and put it all back together and forget about the bottom half.

Or since I am already here, pull the engine, and rebuild everything. I don't mind the 2F, I actually really enjoy the simplicity and being comfortable with an engine.

Do you see any warning signs that it should be rebuilt?

I have considered the 12HT (I don't like how hard it is to find parts) and 1hz-t or 1hdt are being considered too but it is a lot of money for a 24-year-old... Fixing the 2F and then getting a daily makes more sense for where I am in life (I will be moving soon and finishing up a job in September.)

And of course, if I pull the 2F out that 4 speed is coming out and a new H55 is going in.

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

I know your pain. Pretty much the same scenario trying to get home and convince myself that the head gasket really wasn't the problem.
Is the piston top damage in the same cylinder with the worst wall scoring? if so, it could be broken rings.
Good luck, you have some tough decisions to make.

Yeah, its a pain. I will double check, I can't remember for sure. The first piston where the HG went also had similar damage on the top of the piston. Whatever was in there traveled around.

 

[3_puppies]

bet you won't do that again. take it as a learning experience.
with the bore or bores being scored, I think it needs to be totally torn down.

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

bet you won't do that again. take it as a learning experience.
with the bore or bores being scored, I think it needs to be totally torn down.

Total learning experience, I realize now that once things start getting hot pullover and get it towed. I have been learning a ton about the 2F. I learn from experiences.

 

[3_puppies]

Total learning experience, I learn from experiences.

we all learn the hard way sometimes.

my other question is about the water pump, did it have a cover plate on the back on it?

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

we all learn the hard way sometimes.

my other question is about the water pump, did it have a cover plate on the back on it?

Yes, it did, I just took it off for the picture to show the mineral build up.

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

ALSO, something to keep in mind is I am doing all this work in a driveway. I don't have a garage or really the time to engine swap anything but the 2F right now unless a shop does it. But that's some serious coin.

Also, I have talked with @mattressking and @Jasonredwood about some machine shops to do the head in SoCal. But I am taking suggestions for shops to help with the rebuild.

 

[HemiAlex]

Your compression numbers are hugely off. I’m impressed.

I like the simple approach for now.

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

Your compression numbers are hugely off. I’m impressed.

I like the simple approach for now.

Simple is always nice! And yeah and I double checked the compression because I wasn’t sure if the gauge was misreading. All over the place.

 

[OSS]

Here's some hindsight info that may have saved the overheating ordeal:

The radiator or whatever had a very small leak in it that likely only leaked WHEN UNDER PRESSURE. The coolant only gets under pressure by the radiator cap. If there's no radiator cap or the cap is modified a tad to bypass its spring check valve, the cooling system won't pressurize and the expansion will flow freely into the overflow tank.

An OK radiator can easily keep a properly running 2F cool enough without a pressurized cooling system. I know that for a fact because I ran my 2F for 2 years unpressurized, even in the summer in the blazing hot desert. So NEXT time, remember to remove or replace the radiator cap with a modified one the next time you find a leak.

As for the scoring on the cylinder walls, that was most likely there long before the overheating event. Overheating isn't going to gouge cylinder walls (I don't think). And those gouges in the piston head could have been unavoidable. The 30 year old EGR cooler can spit internal rust rocks loose that will end up inside the engine- causing mayhem. That too could have happened years ago

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

Here's some hindsight info that may have saved the overheating ordeal:

The radiator or whatever had a very small leak in it that likely only leaked WHEN UNDER PRESSURE. The coolant only gets under pressure by the radiator cap. If there's no radiator cap or the cap is modified a tad to bypass its spring check valve, the cooling system won't pressurize and the expansion will flow freely into the overflow tank.

An OK radiator can easily keep a properly running 2F cool enough without a pressurized cooling system. I know that for a fact because I ran my 2F for 2 years unpressurized, even in the summer in the blazing hot desert. So NEXT time, remember to remove or replace the radiator cap with a modified one the next time you find a leak.

As for the scoring on the cylinder walls, that was most likely there long before the overheating event. Overheating isn't going to gouge cylinder walls (I don't think). And those gouges in the piston head could have been unavoidable. The 30 year old EGR cooler can spit internal rust rocks loose that will end up inside the engine- causing mayhem. That too could have happened years ago

It was the radiator leaking and the first thing I swapped out that I forgot to mention was the radiator cap. Water was able to flow freely into the overflow tank and back, I visually saw it since it moved a ton of fluid into the overflow tank and was boiling it in there. Then once it cooled down It would suck it back in. Good to know, I will modify one and keep it in the truck.

Do you think the scoring is bad enough to not be ignored or should I just refresh clean up the surface of the block, check for warping, send the head off to a machine shop to be checked, then resurfaced with new valves and springs?

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Do you think the scoring is bad enough to not be ignored or should I just refresh clean up the surface of the block, check for warping, send the head off to a machine shop to be checked, then resurfaced with new valves and springs?

This is your decision alone. Start making a list and add it up. Can you do it easily? $$ and the wrenching?
I’m in my driveway too, I sorta have the time, definitely have the ‘balls’ (tho I’m a chick), but the $$ is the tough part for me. I have my son part time, he’s homeschooled and I typically work the days he’s not w/ me which ranges from 16-24 hours a week.
I’ve got my head off now too. I have scuffing like yours in #4. I had done a leakdown and almost across the board each tested at 15% which is not bad but does show leakage. I’m at 196k and a full rebuild could be warrented tho I’d do it insitu; rings and rehone and cross my fingers. I’m doing some hard thinking on this choice too. I did not have any clean pistons like your #1, (I’m glad to see those pics) and my head gasket had no obvious signs of failure. I was losing a fair amount of coolant; no real steam noted from my exhaust, although a good amount from the top of the engine and some evidence of coolant/oil mix in my air cleaner and on the rocker assembly bolt heads. My compression was 100 in 2 & 5, the rest were around 155-165. All can attest I’ve been way deeply in the top and bottom of my engine already over the last few years w/o pulling it out of the truck in my driveway. It can be done. I’m not shy and I’ve asked here on mud for various tools to borrow. People are happy to help in that regard.
But honestly, this is your choice. Talking here on mud is great but when it comes to decision time, no one can really help you chose.